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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2008, 06:29 PM
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If you leave the US, you still have to file a taxes and pay taxes.. You can't just simple leave the US and not pay taxes. Ask Marc Rich.
You can't somehow get rid of your citizenship?

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No...and it would be irrelevant if it did.
Not really, if it included segregated areas, and only segregated areas it would be perfectly fine. If not, then yes, it is stupid and possible a 14th Amendment violation.

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That is nonsense. My grandfather was a sharecropper. You know nothing about sharecropping.
Your grandfather was a black sharecropper? We're talking about black sharecroppers here...

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No, he knows about the public edumacation version.
Edumacation isn't a word.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2008, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Zephyr View Post
Not really, if it included segregated areas, and only segregated areas it would be perfectly fine. If not, then yes, it is stupid and possible a 14th Amendment violation.
If it is not applied equitably to all, it violates the XIVth amendment. Otherwise, there is no equality under the law.

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Your grandfather was a black sharecropper? We're talking about black sharecroppers here...
Virtually everyone in the south that did not own land prior to WWII immediately outside of metropolitan areaswere sharecroppers Zeph. Even if you did own land....that doesn't mean it was arable. The house my mother was born in was smaller than my den. Their back porch was a stone slab. They got their water out of a creek, not a well.

You seem to think that social and monitory enequality was specific to blacks. It wasn't and it still isn't.

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Edumacation isn't a word.
Perhaps not....but his comment fits.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2008, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Zephyr View Post
You can't somehow get rid of your citizenship?
You'd still have to pay taxes for the year before you left the country and you would have to renounce citizenship.. so you aren't able to move away from taxes without loss of Citizenship. But this is where the US gets you.. 99% of all Nations require you to live in the country for some time before being able to become a citizen in your new country. Which puts you in a case of no nationality which means you can not travel. UN has talked about this, they call it Statelessness and in some cases Refugee.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 11-01-2008, 04:27 PM
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If it is not applied equitably to all, it violates the XIVth amendment. Otherwise, there is no equality under the law.
I believe the 14th only applies to people, but whatever.

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Virtually everyone in the south that did not own land prior to WWII immediately outside of metropolitan areaswere sharecroppers Zeph. Even if you did own land....that doesn't mean it was arable. The house my mother was born in was smaller than my den. Their back porch was a stone slab. They got their water out of a creek, not a well.

You seem to think that social and monitory enequality was specific to blacks. It wasn't and it still isn't.
Yeah, but black people were the ones legally forced into it.
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"Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states...Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds."



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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2008, 12:04 PM
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I believe the 14th only applies to people, but whatever.
You should read it again.

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Yeah, but black people were the ones legally forced into it.
No more than enyone else who didn't own their own land. In an agrarian society, your choices were very limited. You could either sharecrop or bootleg.

Here is a typical example of a sharecrop contract:

Contract

These contracts obviously favored the land owner.
Were their ne'er-do-wells in this system?
Well sure. There are always criminals in any system.
Just look at Washington DC.

It wasn't until the war started that my family was able to leave that social disposition. To assert that the 'blacks' were the only ones 'legally forced into it' is absurd and exposes your lack of knowledge on the subject.
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The law perverted! And the police powers of the state perverted along with it! The law, I say, not only turned from its proper purpose but made to follow an entirely contrary purpose! The law become the weapon of every kind of greed! Instead of checking crime, the law itself guilty of the evils it is supposed to punish! - Frederick Bastiat
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2008, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by BoneDaddy View Post
You should read it again.



No more than enyone else who didn't own their own land. In an agrarian society, your choices were very limited. You could either sharecrop or bootleg.

Here is a typical example of a sharecrop contract:

Contract

These contracts obviously favored the land owner.
Were their ne'er-do-wells in this system?
Well sure. There are always criminals in any system.
Just look at Washington DC.

It wasn't until the war started that my family was able to leave that social disposition. To assert that the 'blacks' were the only ones 'legally forced into it' is absurd and exposes your lack of knowledge on the subject.
The face of poverty and deprivation has been defined by the media as being minority. Statistically, a large percentage of several minority groups does live below the poverty line - however, again statistically, the largest group below the poverty line is actually whites.

Which is why we need to redesign any affirmative action as economic rather than racial/ethnic.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2008, 05:35 PM
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You should read it again.
I did, the equal protection clause reads:

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No state shall...deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Thus, the equal protection clause does not apply to the federal government and the CRA and the Federal Income Tax are constitutional regardless.

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No more than enyone else who didn't own their own land. In an agrarian society, your choices were very limited. You could either sharecrop or bootleg.

Here is a typical example of a sharecrop contract:

Contract

These contracts obviously favored the land owner.
Were their ne'er-do-wells in this system?
Well sure. There are always criminals in any system.
Just look at Washington DC.

It wasn't until the war started that my family was able to leave that social disposition. To assert that the 'blacks' were the only ones 'legally forced into it' is absurd and exposes your lack of knowledge on the subject.
Ahh, but it's still a little different. Black people were legally, socially, and economically denied any advancement in other walks of life. Your family was economically and socially denied advancement in other walks of life.
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"Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states...Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds."



~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2008, 10:13 PM
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Thus, the equal protection clause does not apply to the federal government and the CRA and the Federal Income Tax are constitutional regardless.
So imposing restrictions on the people of a jurisdiction, without imposing the same restrictions on the people of another jurisdiction meets the criteria. We are not talking about 'the federal government.' We are talking about precinct level.

I can not change a polling location without obtaining permission from the fed.gov. Even if the former owner changes their mind about allowing us to hold the election at that location. Such actions has lead to the disenfranchisement of voters in the past. Therefore....effecting THE VOTES OF INDIVIDUALS does indeed violate the XIVth amendment.

Of course....those of us who are old enough TO VOTE, and who actually run the elections and are polling judges, know this to be true.

I would contend that the XVIth amendment did indeed make the income tax constitutional, though charging people different rates is not.

At least they had the decency to pass an amendment. While you have made it clear that IT IS OK FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO VIOLATE THE LAW....as long as YOU agree with the agenda.

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Ahh, but it's still a little different. Black people were legally, socially, and economically denied any advancement in other walks of life. Your family was economically and socially denied advancement in other walks of life.
That is nonsense. People in power have always denied others advancement with exception to their own. This has been so since the beginning of time.

They still do. You are simply blinded by the propaganda to understand the paradigm. The reps enrich their own. The dems enrich their own. Both talk doublespeak and make promises with no intention to deliver. In the end, the rich will get more wealthy and the middle class will shrink. It is more relevent to class than any other factor. It is an exclusive club an you aren't invited regardless of what your parents tell you.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2008, 07:08 PM
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So imposing restrictions on the people of a jurisdiction, without imposing the same restrictions on the people of another jurisdiction meets the criteria. We are not talking about 'the federal government.' We are talking about precinct level.

I can not change a polling location without obtaining permission from the fed.gov. Even if the former owner changes their mind about allowing us to hold the election at that location. Such actions has lead to the disenfranchisement of voters in the past. Therefore....effecting THE VOTES OF INDIVIDUALS does indeed violate the XIVth amendment.

Of course....those of us who are old enough TO VOTE, and who actually run the elections and are polling judges, know this to be true.

I would contend that the XVIth amendment did indeed make the income tax constitutional, though charging people different rates is not.

At least they had the decency to pass an amendment. While you have made it clear that IT IS OK FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO VIOLATE THE LAW....as long as YOU agree with the agenda.
The bill came from the federal government. It was a federal bill. It didn't violate the 14th Amendment, which requires the STATE GOVERNMENTS ONLY to provide equal protection of the laws. Did you not get that?

It isn't okay for the government to violate the law. Which parts of the Constitution have they violated, in your view?

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That is nonsense. People in power have always denied others advancement with exception to their own. This has been so since the beginning of time.

They still do. You are simply blinded by the propaganda to understand the paradigm. The reps enrich their own. The dems enrich their own. Both talk doublespeak and make promises with no intention to deliver. In the end, the rich will get more wealthy and the middle class will shrink. It is more relevent to class than any other factor.
Oh, I have a huge problem with the class divide that existed. A huge problem. It wasn't fair to the poor whites, either, but are you honestly pretending it wasn't worse for blacks than anyone else?
Honestly?

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It is an exclusive club an you aren't invited regardless of what your parents tell you.
Er...what is an exclusive club?
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2008, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Zephyr View Post
The bill came from the federal government. It was a federal bill. It didn't violate the 14th Amendment, which requires the STATE GOVERNMENTS ONLY to provide equal protection of the laws. Did you not get that?
If, as you contend that the requirement is for the 'state governments only'[ to provide equal protection, then why are certain 'COUNTIES' excluded from the CRA? That blows that notion up.

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It isn't okay for the government to violate the law. Which parts of the Constitution have they violated, in your view?
Here: The Constitutional Militant How the Stomach Churns

The GOVERNMENT violated the election code (LAW) and as such has become a criminal organization.

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Oh, I have a huge problem with the class divide that existed. A huge problem. It wasn't fair to the poor whites, either, but are you honestly pretending it wasn't worse for blacks than anyone else?
Honestly?
I am not argung that point. I am arguing that the systemic exploitation of the lower classes has been, and always will be problematic. Even looking at the civil war period, the wealthy politicians got the poor to fight their war. That paradigm still exists. Why? Because people (groups) don't demand 'equality under the law,' they demand favors and benefits which in turn creates social divides and resentment.

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Er...what is an exclusive club?
The ruling class.
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The law perverted! And the police powers of the state perverted along with it! The law, I say, not only turned from its proper purpose but made to follow an entirely contrary purpose! The law become the weapon of every kind of greed! Instead of checking crime, the law itself guilty of the evils it is supposed to punish! - Frederick Bastiat
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