The way politics in the real world works is...

You do that until your vote is always planned and ignored. Your party turns its back on you because your lack of support for anything. Slowly but surly nothing gets done because you will not vote for something you do not particularity like no one will vote for anything you suggest.

Now on this bill I would rather no one voted for it. It is flat out a violation. And I agree with you on the big votes like this. But for the most part that is a flawed strategy.

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I know it, Mal. There is a lot of "I'll vote for this bill you want if you'll vote for this bill I want," too instead of voting for what is best for the citizens. The system sucks.

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"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson

Walter Mondale: "George Bush doesn't have the manhood to apologize." George Bush: "Well, on the manhood thing, I'll put mine up against his any time."

That doesn't make this a good thing, you know. It's just nothing particularly new that the constitution is being bent.

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"Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states...Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds."



~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

"They?" Are you referring to less than half the democrats or all of the republicans?

That's one way to deal with it. Another is to let the courts straighten it out. It's called negotiation, where a bill with issues you don't like is past in order to get issues you do get past. In order to get Bush and the republicans to sign on to a bill to protect our national security they had to include the immunity clause for the telecommunication industry. Democracy sucks doesn't it....

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I'm Proud I never Voted For Bush!



PAT PAULSEN FOR PRESIDENT

But it was bent at the insistence of Bush and the republicans.

The FISA Amendment Act is Signed into Law : Indybay

On July 10th, Bush has signed into law the FISA Amendment Act. The law allows the government to spy on emails, phone calls, web surfing, and other communications without warrants. The law also includes immunity to telecommunication companies who participated in an illegal spying by the government. An older version past by the House was threatened to be veto by President Bush for not including this immunity.

So the democrats were faced with no bill or the bill they wanted plus the immunity clause or Bush would veto it.

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I'm Proud I never Voted For Bush!



PAT PAULSEN FOR PRESIDENT

Then why did the democrats vote for it?

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"Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states...Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds."



~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

I explained why less than half the democrats did that in this post: The Constitution Takes A HIT! - Page 2 - Political Fever - The Political Debate Forums

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I'm Proud I never Voted For Bush!



PAT PAULSEN FOR PRESIDENT

Jim Martin: Principle vs. cowardice - Glenn Greenwald - Salon.com

Jim Martin is the Democratic candidate for Senate in Georgia, challenging GOP incumbent Saxby Chambliss. Though universally considered all year to have little chance of winning in this deep Southern red state, virtually all polls now show the race as extremely close if not tied, and Martin clearly has a very good chance to win. Yesterday, Matt Stoller published an interview he conducted this week with Martin which contained this exchange:

Question: Do you have a position on FISA and government wiretapping?

Jim Martin: The threat of terrorism is real and the government should take all necessary measures to protect us. While I support the overall aims of the recent FISA bill, the inclusion of a provision granting amnesty to telecom providers who permitted the government to listen in on the conversations of Americans without a warrant troubles me. Because I do not believe that the government should craft policy that permits law breaking, I would not have supported the FISA bill that included telecom immunity.

This issue could make a big difference in the South...

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I'm Proud I never Voted For Bush!



PAT PAULSEN FOR PRESIDENT