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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2008, 07:56 PM
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Default The end of capitalism?

Just like Communism fell so dramatically a few years ago. If we bail out these businesses, it is admitting that govts must regulate capitalism to make sure they don't have to bail them out.

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Old 09-28-2008, 08:15 PM
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Government contributed to the current fiasco, so I don't know about that. The Community Reinvestment Act made it mandatory for lenders to make high-risk loans to people who normally wouldn't qualify for loans due to not having the money to make the payments. So I'm not convinced that capitalism was the problem since brainless, misguided government intervention in the loan industry is largely responsible for the current crisis.
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Old 09-28-2008, 08:26 PM
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Default The Truth Behind Rightwing Lies...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojo View Post
Just like Communism fell so dramatically a few years ago. If we bail out these businesses, it is admitting that govts must regulate capitalism to make sure they don't have to bail them out.

Comments?
I don't know if it's the end of capitalism, Jojo, despite the fact that that it's long been considered a failed economic concept, but it certainly is the end of a number of core elements of Republicanism. You must admit that last week was historic. It may well be a week that financial and economic people will study for generations...and it finally revealed the flaws in the rightwing ideology.

"We are the party of small government!"

Actually, this week simply added to the the end of this claim. Under Bush II, discretionary spending has increased from $640 billion to $1.040 trillion dollars. Also remember that Bush had a Republican controlled congress for 6 of those years. However, Paulson is scheduled to send a package to Congress which totals $800 billion. The Treasury may well create a new agency to buy bad debt (which the WSJ's Marketbeat blog has called the Treasury Garbage Machine). In short, when the Republicans control all branches of government they spend like drunken sailors. One down!

"We Support Free Markets!"

Last week the SEC banned short-selling in financial shares:

Quote:
The Securities and Exchange Commission has announced a ban on short-selling financial stocks over the next two weeks. Short-selling is essentially betting that a stock's price will go down. The SEC hopes the ban will reduce downward pressure on the market, but some think it will backfire. Wall Streeter Barry Ritholtz tells Madeleine Brand that the SEC action reverses 1,000 years of theory about how free markets should work.
In short, markets are supported when they are going up. But when they are going down, we're going to do everything we can to prevent them from going down.

"We Are the Party of Fiscal Responsibility!"

No they aren't. And NEVER have been! No Republican president has ever balanced a budget. Not one. While Republicans have argued that Reagan had to contend with Democrats, Bush II did not for 6 years. Under this scenario where the Republicans controlled all branches of government they never even came close to balancing a budget.

"We are the Party of Personal Responsibility!"

No they're not. When companies make really stupid decisions, the Federal government bails them out. Just ask any shareholder of AIG. Or any taxpayer who will not help to finance the latest government bail-out.

Simply put, this week has demonstrated a key point: when the going gets tough, the Republicans become SOCIALISTS!

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If you are a fan of irony, consider this: The conservative movement has utterly hated FDR, and his New Deal programs like Medicaid, Social Security, FDIC, Fannie Mae (1938), and the SEC for nearly 80 years. And for the past 8 years, a conservative was in the White House, with a very conservative agenda. For something like 16 of the past 18 years, the conservative dominated GOP has controlled Congress. Those are the facts.
We now see that the grand experiment of deregulation has ended, and ended badly. The deregulation movement is now an historical footnote, just another interest group, and once in power they turned into socialists. Indeed, judging by the actions of the rightwads in power, and not the empty rhetoric that comes out of think tanks, the conservative movement has effectively turned the United States into a massive Socialist state, an appendage of Communist Russia, China and Venezuela.

Whenever a Republican talking head says they are for any of the above mentioned things they should be questioned to explain how that statement (I'm for free markets) jibes with banning short selling of an entire sector of the market. Whenever a Republican says he is for smaller government, have him explain the nearly doubling of discretionary spending when the Republicans controlled all branches of government.

Simply put, this week demonstrated how hollow many of the Republican values are. They sound great on paper, but aren't put into practice when that result might cause financial harm to another Republican.
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Old 09-28-2008, 08:52 PM
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It's definitely the end of the Reagan "trickle down" theory.
It was a delusion that rich people care about someone other than themseves, that they are compassionate and caring citizens, that's just plain stupid.
Name one time Bush or Chenney ever did one thing for this country or anyone other than themselves.
I'd say this country is on the verge of collapse, it doesn't matter who wins, Bush has sealed our fate, he's left nothing for a new president to work with, I don't believe in miracles...we're screwed.
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Old 09-28-2008, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumara View Post
Government contributed to the current fiasco, so I don't know about that. The Community Reinvestment Act made it mandatory for lenders to make high-risk loans to people who normally wouldn't qualify for loans due to not having the money to make the payments. So I'm not convinced that capitalism was the problem since brainless, misguided government intervention in the loan industry is largely responsible for the current crisis.
Bingo. It was using our economy for social engineering that caused this mess.
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Old 09-28-2008, 10:15 PM
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Capitalism has not failed.. it was Keynesian Economics that failed.
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Old 09-28-2008, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webwarrior View Post
Name one time Bush or Chenney ever did one thing for this country or anyone other than themselves.
"The Cheneys said that their total contributions to charitable organizations during the years Mr. Cheney has served as vice president totaled $7.96-million."

Bush and Cheney Disclose Details of Their 2007 CharitableGiving - Philanthropy.com
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Old 09-28-2008, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finny View Post
Capitalism has not failed.. it was Keynesian Economics that failed.
Keynesian Economics was fatally wounded under Reagen and the Bushs. Then the republican party kept stabbing it causing the market to swell and swell until it popped under the weight of greed that is the republican economic theory.
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Old 09-28-2008, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mwillman View Post
Keynesian Economics was fatally wounded under Reagen and the Bushs. Then the republican party kept stabbing it causing the market to swell and swell until it popped under the weight of greed that is the republican economic theory.
So, the whole Keynesian plan of a discount windows and cheap interest rates caused the economy to correct itself right?

You are clueless on what caused this, you are grasping to make your lies truth. Its a damn shame those who warned about the same thing happening years ago.. are Free Market Economist. Paul on Mad Money
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Last edited by Finny : 09-28-2008 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 09-28-2008, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webwarrior View Post
It's definitely the end of the Reagan "trickle down" theory.
It was a delusion that rich people care about someone other than themseves, that they are compassionate and caring citizens, that's just plain stupid.
Name one time Bush or Chenney ever did one thing for this country or anyone other than themselves.
I'd say this country is on the verge of collapse, it doesn't matter who wins, Bush has sealed our fate, he's left nothing for a new president to work with, I don't believe in miracles...we're screwed.
Obviously bush and chenney represent everyone you may call "rich", who you think are inherantly evil. I love that logic you are using.
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