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Originally Posted by Finny
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Originally Posted by Twig
We have 3 branches of government with checks and balances. It doesn’t work a 100 percent of the time but, sometimes it does. Do you want to move to a dictatorship and let failure correct itself?
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What does this have to do with the price of tea in China? Nada.
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We all know our government screws things up. I suggested checks and balances are better than a dictatorship who can be overthrown is he/she does a bad job. The point of that was to suggest that some regulations are better than no regulation, even though some regulations can screw things up.
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Originally Posted by Finny
But if that's your argument, why can't we view no regulation the same way? Eh... don't answer that, since you still haven't answered this question: So how can you claim capitalism can survive with the regulation when the regulation is only created to manipulate the markets in a design to control the markets?
I'll lay out answer for you. It can't, once moved to manipulate the markets it does not stay Capitalism, it moves towards Socialism.
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Pure Capitalism is no government involvement. Socialism is a great distance from pure capitalism. Your statement that absolutely nothing between them is capitalism therefore suggesting I’m a moron and full of crap, is nothing of substance. So what if I have say we can still call capitalism, capitalism, if it has some regulation and you call it “a move towards socialism”.
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Originally Posted by Finny
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Originally Posted by Twig
Some regulation works at the same time other regulation fails. Does the current failure mean that labor laws aren’t helping in some ways to keep money in consumers pockets?
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So!?! some times pure Capitalism is good but sometimes it not. Your arguments are very elementary right now.
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Yes, I’m talking elementary.
Pure Capitalism is no government involvement. Socialism is a great distance from pure capitalism. What I saying is, pure capitalism never works. You have to be some distance away from pure capitalism for it to work. I’m not arguing what distance that is. I’m just pointing out that you have to have some regulation to reap the benefits of capitalism.
Having trees exist forever, is a good thing. Killing every tree is bad. Pure capitalism doesn’t prevent every tree from being chopped down. Regulations are needed to assist and influence capitalism so trees and the wood industry thrive forever.
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Originally Posted by Twig
Some regulation works at the same time other regulation fails. Does the current failure mean that labor laws aren’t helping in some ways to keep money in consumers pockets?
History shows a time in America when a great many people, including children, worked sun up to sun down, 7 days a week, and were still extremely poor. Do you want the market to be able to go back to this?
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Look at the gilded age:
The American Experience | Andrew Carnegie | Gilded Age Little regulation was not so good.
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Originally Posted by Finny
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Originally Posted by Twig
Look how many time in resent history Chinese products have had problems? The market can weed these out on their own. Should regulations be stripped and the markets allowed to correct this?
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Ok? Are you questioning if they've had problems are not? You do not need regulation to correct issues such as that.There is this thing called Crimes. You know if you knowingly harm someone, you have to go to trial, end up being put in jail. Then face a Civil Law suit which will cost you (if you are company) millions, maybe even billions.
Tell me what's more harsh and corrects the issue better. A) getting a $250,000 fine and a slap on the wrist... or B) a chance at complete bankruptcy?
A) is done with Regulation... B) is done by criminal and civil law.
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If your dead from a bad product, you would have been better off with a regulation that prevented your death, than letting the market fix the problem after your death.
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Originally Posted by Finny
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Originally Posted by Twig
At any point in time, money is a pie and each person has a piece of it. Capitalism can get to a point where a few have too much of the pie and consumers stop consuming. The market can not self correct and put money into the consumers hands.
Sometimes the market can correct itself and should be allowed to do so. To say this is always the case is foolish. Capitalism can’t work all by itself.
Finding the right regulations is the key. Sometime the right regulation won’t be any regulation at all. But Capitalism always requires some regulation.
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Wow, lets go through this. Capitalism doesn't get to that point.
Capitalism is: individuals and firms have the right to own and use wealth to earn income and to sell and purchase labor for wages with little or no government control. The function of regulating the economy is then achieved mainly through the operation of market forces where prices and profit dictate where and how resources are used and allocated.
This means if there is too little unemployment wages rise, which means more wealth for workers and consumer income for them to spend which goes to companies which is passed on to workers as wages.
If there is high unemployment wages fall, which means a loss of wealth for the workers but also a loss for companies.
In true (pure) Capitalism, you live and die (so to speak) by market forces. The invisible hand. I.E today, Samsung TVs might out sell Sony TVs. Tomorrow it could be the opposite.
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The great depression. Did that work well for people? No. Did the markets get themselves out of that? No. Could the markets alone have gotten themselves out of that? No.
The Great Depression
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Originally Posted by Finny
But did you address the key question I asked in this post and the previous post.
So how can you claim capitalism can survive with the regulation when the regulation is only created to manipulate the markets in a design to control the markets?
I answered the question for you earlier in this post. Once regulated it is not Capitalism. So all of your elementary arguments are based on flawed thinking of what Capitalism is. To refresh your memory... Capitalism: An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.
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There is no proof or point with what you have said. If you can show that capitalism with no regulation can work, then you have overruled what I have said.
09-29-2008, 11:55 AM
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