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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2008, 09:42 PM
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I love it when people think that Government should be just small enough to fit in peoples bedrooms.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2008, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by flaja View Post
I figured libertarian licentiousness had to be lurking in this party somewhere. I gather that if an individual wishes to kill the unborn or sleep around or commit adultery or get high on crack, this party is all for it since it apparently doesn’t want the government to say otherwise.
What business of it is the government's who I sleep with or what I put in my body?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2008, 09:54 PM
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What business of it is the government's who I sleep with or what I put in my body?
Because with no evidence what so ever, People believe you cheating on your wife will usher in the fall of the union.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2008, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by malrenalds View Post
I love it when people think that Government should be just small enough to fit in peoples bedrooms.
Or your wallet?
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by BoneDaddy View Post
Whose 'tradition' would that be? The theocrats? It certainly isn't the prevailing tradition of the founders. Now...it certainly is in a tradition of say....Oliver Cromwell. He was English....not an American, and certainly not a believer of natural rights.
Since we are talking about the American Conservative Party, we would be talking about the Judeo-Christian tradition that is the foundation for Western Civilization, which the U.S. is part of.

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Certainly if an individual does not act responsibly and violates the equal right of another, then government should intercede. However, if no rights are violated, nor property trespassed upon, the government should stay out of private matters.
So society has no collective rights? Before you start spouting off about the Founders you should note that late in the Constitutional Convention a motion was made to give Congress the power to make salutary laws, i.e., laws governing moral behavior on the part of individuals. The motion was not formally debated because the delegates were ready to go home after 4 months of grueling work. It was, however, pointed out at the Convention that the Constitution already gave Congress such power as part of its power to tax and regulate. Congress could easily ban things like narcotics and adultery and prostitution by laying such a large tax on them that no one could afford them without violating federal tax laws.
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Oregon Elephant View Post
Umm, there haven't been any western Judeo-Christian societies for 3,000 years, as seeing as Christianity isn't even that old.
Mosaic Law, i.e., the legal foundation for Judeo-Christian societies goes back some 3400 years to around 1450BC by some counts. And even by the estimates that historians usually accept it goes back at least 3100 years.
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Oregon Elephant View Post
You don't have to be steeped in tradition to be a conservative. "Conservative" has different meanings socially and politically. Example, socially, one might say, "those are conservative estimates" or "please dress conservatively," that doesn't mean that those are estimates of a political ideology, or that they don't want you to dress like a democrat.

conservatism - Definitions from Dictionary.com

Conservatism from the American Heritage Dictionary:

1. The inclination, especially in politics, to maintain the existing or traditional order.
2. A political philosophy or attitude emphasizing respect for traditional institutions, distrust of government activism, and opposition to sudden change in the established order.

From Webster’s Unabridged Dictionary:

Con*serv"a*tism\, n. [For conservatism.] The disposition and tendency to preserve what is established; opposition to change; the habit of mind; or conduct, of a conservative.

Wikimedia Error

“Conservatism is a term used to describe political philosophies that favour tradition, where tradition refers to various religious, cultural, or nationally defined beliefs and customs.”
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by BoneDaddy View Post
It isn't the purpose of government to dictate morality.

Social conservatism /= constitutional conservatism

There IS NO AUTHORITY IN THE CONSTITUTION provided to the government to legislate 'what' a person injests. There IS NO AUTHORITY IN THE CONSTITUTION provided to the government to legislate 'criminal punishment' for marital indescretions.

Claiming to be 'conservative' while ignoring the constitutional limits placed on government, I find.......well......hypocritical.
Read my post regarding the motion pertaining to salutary laws which was introduced at the Constitutional Convention.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2008, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by xjoe3x View Post
Society is individuals. Unless that "immorality" is harming other individuals there is not a problem.

Society does not equal individuals acting as individuals. Human society is a collection of individual humans that constitutes an entity that is separate from the individuals that comprise it.

society - Definitions from Dictionary.com

noun
1. an organized group of persons associated together for religious, benevolent, cultural, scientific, political, patriotic, or other purposes.
2. a body of individuals living as members of a community; community.
3. the body of human beings generally, associated or viewed as members of a community: the evolution of human society.
4. a highly structured system of human organization for large-scale community living that normally furnishes protection, continuity, security, and a national identity for its members: American society.

—Synonyms 1. association, fellowship, fraternity, brotherhood, company.


a. The totality of social relationships among humans.
b. A group of humans broadly distinguished from other groups by mutual interests, participation in characteristic relationships, shared institutions, and a common culture.
2.
An organization or association of persons engaged in a common profession, activity, or interest: a folklore society; a society of bird watchers.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2008, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by malrenalds View Post
Sorry But you are dead wrong. I believe that A government that attempts to legislate Morality is immoral.

Morality is Subjective. And that is the hallmark of a free society.
Then why did the Framers of the Constitution conclude that the federal government has the power to regulate morality through its power to tax and regulate commerce?
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