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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2008, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Chan View Post
I would define an "independent" as someone who either has no political affiliation or who is registered with the state-level Independent Party in those states that have them.
After I left the GOP when Clinton was acquitted, I changed my voter registration to no-party. But this does not mean that I cherry-pick my political positions from the left and right. I am a staunch conservative (in the Burkean tradition) even though I am no longer a Republican.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2008, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Finny View Post
Why do we have to throw them a little bone? they've been screwing the pooch for the last 227 years.
The GOP has only existed for ... math hard 150 years
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2008, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by flaja View Post
Care to give some examples for a newcomer who is likely to disagree with you?
The federal government has exactly and only those powers specifically enumerated in the Constitution. One example of the federal government stepping outside its constitutional bounds is in the creation of social programs. Another is corporate welfare. Yet another is the Patriot Act. Still another is letting the President send the military overseas to conduct warfare without Congress making a declaration of war.


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I have been thinking for quite a while about a way that such a convention could be conducted online; I’ve even prepared a set of parliamentary rules that could be used to manage an online convention using a message board. But, I don’t know anything about setting up or running a board. And I am concerned that choosing delegates from among people that are likely to use an internet message board would give libertarians too much representation- compare the amount of money that Ron Paul raised on the net to the number of votes he actually received at the polls. For reasons that I cannot figure out libertarians seem to be overly represented in the internet population. I am a conservative and as such I want a society that is stable and functional. I believe that the government (at whatever level is necessary) must do whatever needs to be done when individuals and private efforts cannot or will not do it.
No, doing it online would not be appropriate. We don't want just anyone participating in this. I will be insistent on each state having equal representation since it is at the pleasure of the states that the federal government even exists (though that too would be a valid issue to debate at the Convention).

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In the meantime I have been working on a model constitution that incorporates my own ideas.
Interesting.

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I’ve also wanted to set up a message board that would have limited membership so no part of the political spectrum would be overly represented- I want debate and discussion, not argument and hostility. Would be members would have to take an extensive political ideology placement exam before they could post anything and the number of posters with each ideology would be limited. Such a message board could provide a mechanism for choosing a balanced set of delegates for an online convention.
Then you would have mindless robots participating and not humans. Argument and hostility are important to any meaningful debate as it gets real views out into the open.



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I know that Florida law already has provisions in place whereby delegates to a convention would be chosen in the event that Congress doesn’t specify any procedure for choosing delegates. I would guess that other states have similar stand-by provisions in their statutes.
The states should decide how they're going to choose delegates, though I would still insist on the equal representation I described in the original post and the exclusion of elected representatives.



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This would likely make the convention too unwieldy to get any work done. Right now Florida’s election officials recognize (I’d say) at least a dozen different parties- some of which are exclusive to Florida while others are associated with parties in other states. To represent every known party would likely lead to too many delegates.
But I was thinking national parties and not the state-specific parties like New York's Working Families Party.



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The existing constitution is as much about what the states can and cannot do as it is about what the feds can and cannot do. I think any constitution must do the same.
Not really. It was about establishing a federal government and, in connection with establishing that government, placing some limits on the states (e.g. states cannot enter into treaties with foreign nations).
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2008, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by flaja View Post
What gives “independents” any more right to have a say in government than anyone else?
Because Independents are currently excluded (or pushed out) of the Federal Government. Show me an Independent President, and I'll show 1 million USD.

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Originally Posted by flaja View Post
Is it even possible for someone to be “independent”?
Yes, being Independent means you don't hold party politics above all. These folks rationally think about things, instead of who said it.

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Don’t we all have political biases and ideologies on an issue-by-issue basis if not consistently on all issues?
Of course we do. But there is different mode of thinking when it comes to Independents. You might have an Independent who is pro-gun and one who is anti-gun.. both of them will come to a mutual agreement based on talking it out.. instead of the current views held by Republicans and Democrats which is a bunch of in fighting.. and if we are starting over, I sure as hell would want to have 2 people reaching a COMMON AGREEMENT with no questions in the future like we currently have.

Because since the ink was drying on the paper we call the US Constitution both sides Democrats and what become the Republicans were arguing about what words mean.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2008, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Finny View Post
Why do we have to throw them a little bone? they've been screwing the pooch for the last 227 years.
Only because they represent the majority of Americans.
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2008, 11:42 PM
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I say let the social, political, environmental, etc. scientists and economists dicker it out.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2008, 11:42 PM
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Yes, being Independent means you don't hold party politics above all. These folks rationally think about things, instead of who said it.
ah joey leiberman He is truly a great thinker.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2008, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by flaja View Post
This is what the Senate was originally since senators were chosen by the state legislatures.
I would support repealing the amendment that eliminated this.



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What would be the point? If the federal government didn’t tax the states at the same rate people would simply move from state to state in order to avoid being taxed on Washington’s behalf.
The Constitution originally had the states being taxed based on proportionment among the states. Thus, the states with higher populations paid more in taxes.
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2008, 11:45 PM
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I would support repealing the amendment that eliminated this.
And you say you're into liberty.
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"Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states...Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds."



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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2008, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by malrenalds View Post
The GOP has only existed for ... math hard 150 years
GOP grew out of the older parties. Ever hear of the Democratic-Republican Party?
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