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Old 07-28-2008, 04:05 AM
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Default Time for the revolution?

So does anyone recall at what point of income inequality, revolution is most likely to begin? It seems to me there is a certain tipping point - are we near?

Income Inequality Grows
"In a new sign of increasing inequality in the U.S., the richest 1% of Americans in 2006 garnered the highest share of the nation's adjusted gross income for two decades, and possibly the highest since 1929," according to the Wall Street Journal.

"Meanwhile, the average tax rate of the wealthiest 1% fell to its lowest level in at least 18 years. The group's share of the tax burden has risen, though not as quickly as its share of income."

Taegan Goddard's Political Wire
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Old 07-28-2008, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Jojo View Post
So does anyone recall at what point of income inequality, revolution is most likely to begin? It seems to me there is a certain tipping point - are we near?
Is that your wet dream? Because a Revolution based on Income is just as stupid as having a Revolution over the jailing of the Blind Sheik.

It's funny.. you choose to that snippet knowing most people won't read it, hell you probably didn't even read it.. so I'll include one of my own..

Quote:
Originally Posted by WSJ
The group paid 39.9% of all income taxes in 2006, compared with 27.6% in 1988.
The Article

So with the increase in income (which can come from almost anything.. deaths, the Market, Saving, or Marriage).. 1% of the population is paying 40% of the taxes.

Imagine that, 1% picking up 40% taxes, yet you want to have a Revolution? So the other 99% can pick up the other 40%?

Yes.. let's tax the folks who invest in companies and start up companies.. let's take more and more money out of their hands so economy slows down even further./SARCASM

Thank god, you don't run the economy. We'd be in food lines again, just like it was during the Great Depression because the Wealthy were targeted with high taxes and they couldn't invest because Uncle Sam decided to steal it.
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Last edited by Finny : 07-28-2008 at 05:54 AM.
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Old 07-28-2008, 06:02 AM
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[quote=Jojo;138840]So does anyone recall at what point of income inequality, revolution is most likely to begin? It seems to me there is a certain tipping point - are we near?


*** It isn't bad enough that liberals do everything in their power to align themselves with our enemies and with their economies, but now they want to create riots or revolutions by staging class warfare. Just what we need Jojo, something that might upset America's #1 economy rating in the world. I don't know you Jojo, but my guess is that you're employed as a social worker on special assignment to see that illegal aliens get all the benefits we real Americans get...and more. Am I close?
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:53 AM
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Apparently the neocons slept through history class. Remember the French Revolution? The Russian Revolution? What fueled them was a small group of have-lots nobility, apparently clueless, or indifferent, to the suffering of the many desperately poor.

While I don't believe we're at that point of desperation - yet - I see that the neocons are as indifferent to the plight of the poor as the French and Russian nobility were. The describe the questioning of the gap between rich and poor as "class warfare," but are silent about the "class warfare" on the lower and middle classes, who are having a hard time trying to make ends meet, what with high gas prices and higher food prices. Many don't even have a few luxuries to give up to make ends meet.
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:09 AM
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Apparently the neocons slept through history class. Remember the French Revolution? The Russian Revolution? What fueled them was a small group of have-lots nobility, apparently clueless, or indifferent, to the suffering of the many desperately poor.

While I don't believe we're at that point of desperation - yet - I see that the neocons are as indifferent to the plight of the poor as the French and Russian nobility were. The describe the questioning of the gap between rich and poor as "class warfare," but are silent about the "class warfare" on the lower and middle classes, who are having a hard time trying to make ends meet, what with high gas prices and higher food prices. Many don't even have a few luxuries to give up to make ends meet.

*** The irony to your nonsense is that its the conservatives who actually set plans that enable the unemployed and the welfare leeches to get a job, to feel better about themselves and their lot in life, and to actually have a chance to succeed in life. And its the corporations and businesses (capitalism) that actually hire these people to become productive citizens. Remember how 'everyone' in the glorious eighties felt good about themselves, and were enriched by life itself because Ronald Reagan enabled them to pick each up by their own bootstraps. Well Tojo, you had 40 some years of a welfare state created by FDR that enabled welfare recipients to glorify in cradle to grave benefits, without the slightest respect of those individuals and of what would be their best interest in life. Is this what Rev Wright meant when he said the chickens are coming home to roost...that the poor and welfare people would rise in revolt against the welfare state that FDR chastened them into? If that's the case, then I'll guarantee you all those welfare revolutionaries will become voting Republicans.
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:11 AM
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The Gini coefficient has been a pretty effective measurement for social instability. Whenever countries reach the tipping point of wealth inequality, there is an encroachment of some sorts - and the lower tier of society moves against the top.

I question the source of wealth for these haves: private property.

Private property has no tangible defense. Capital, for example, is just an extension of the fuedalist principles involving aristocrats: it exists solely because the system dictates that it must. Capital is worthless without the labor of man and the demand of consumers. At the bare minimum, ownership over land and natural resources should mean you having to reward the propertyless; unlike labor, their existence is independent of you. All modes of production are social. My use of timber inadvertently affects your ability to use that same tree I cut down. Furthermore, when you claim ownership over the forest and I'm having to hunt on your grounds, wage slavery occurs. To meet my own subsistence, I must contract with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finny
So with the increase in income (which can come from almost anything.. deaths, the Market, Saving, or Marriage).. 1% of the population is paying 40% of the taxes.

Imagine that, 1% picking up 40% taxes, yet you want to have a Revolution? So the other 99% can pick up the other 40%?
Hullo. The top 1% owns over 40% of the country's wealth. I'll cry them a river once they hand back property to the rightful owners.

How the income tax is set up can be summarized as an attack on labor. Even workers making millions are hit hard. Capitalists don't make money from income. They acquire it through investments, and then pay a flat rate of 15% - as well as buy off the best lawyers and advisers to find even more loopholes.

Workers of all arbitrary class distinctions (unemployed, poor, middle, and upper) need to rail against corporations and the capitalists. If there is ever to be a free society, we shouldn't have corporate personhood, patents, copyrights, or economic rent.

(On an unrelated note, I'm perplexed by your use of the character V in your signature, when V's ideals are inspired by the anarcho-communist community)
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Last edited by GeneCosta : 07-28-2008 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Liberal-hater View Post
*** The irony to your nonsense is that its the conservatives who actually set plans that enable the unemployed and the welfare leeches to get a job, to feel better about themselves and their lot in life, and to actually have a chance to succeed in life. And its the corporations and businesses (capitalism) that actually hire these people to become productive citizens. Remember how 'everyone' in the glorious eighties felt good about themselves, and were enriched by life itself because Ronald Reagan enabled them to pick each up by their own bootstraps. Well Tojo, you had 40 some years of a welfare state created by FDR that enabled welfare recipients to glorify in cradle to grave benefits, without the slightest respect of those individuals and of what would be their best interest in life. Is this what Rev Wright meant when he said the chickens are coming home to roost...that the poor and welfare people would rise in revolt against the welfare state that FDR chastened them into? If that's the case, then I'll guarantee you all those welfare revolutionaries will become voting Republicans.
Let's use your example of Ronnie Reagan: unemployment soared to 10%, homelessness increased to a little over 2 million, there was a 6% increase in poverty, and the Consumer Price Index rose from 126 to 187. I should also point out the government always low-balls unemployment numbers. In Reagan's administration, military personnel were counted as employed. In Clinton's, people on social programs were not counted.

Ronnie Reagan quadrupled the national debt and created the biggest tax increase during peace-time in recent history.

Under Truman, the highest bracket was 90%. Up until the late '70s the top bracket was above 50%. Long-term capital gains rarely went above 30%.
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Last edited by GeneCosta : 07-28-2008 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
Let's use your example of Ronnie Reagan: unemployment soared to 10%, homelessness increased to a little over 2 million, there was a 6% increase in poverty, and the Consumer Price Index rose from 126 to 187. I should also point out the government always low-balls unemployment numbers. In Reagan's administration, military personnel were counted as employed. In Clinton's, people on social programs were not counted.

Ronnie Reagan quadrupled the national debt and created the biggest tax increase during peace-time in recent history.

Under Truman, the highest bracket was 90%. Up until the late '70s the top bracket was above 50%. Long-term capital gains rarely went above 30%.

Yep, those were the days. [/sarcasm]
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
Let's use your example of Ronnie Reagan: unemployment soared to 10%, homelessness increased to a little over 2 million, there was a 6% increase in poverty, and the Consumer Price Index rose from 126 to 187. I should also point out the government always low-balls unemployment numbers. In Reagan's administration, military personnel were counted as employed. In Clinton's, people on social programs were not counted.

Ronnie Reagan quadrupled the national debt and created the biggest tax increase during peace-time in recent history.

Under Truman, the highest bracket was 90%. Up until the late '70s the top bracket was above 50%. Long-term capital gains rarely went above 30%.
And under Reagan inflation dropped from the double digits of the 1970s to single digits and continued to drop afterward until the environmentalist nutjobs pushed the federal government into wasting corn on biofuels.
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:23 AM
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And under Reagan inflation dropped from the double digits of the 1970s to single digits and continued to drop afterward until the environmentalist nutjobs pushed the federal government into wasting corn on biofuels.
Prove the allegations about the environmentalists or it didn't happen.
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