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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Affrayer View Post
Nope, it specifically says "United States." It doesn't say "States." It doesn't say "Several States." It doesn't say "each State." Instead it refers to the "United States."

I have a book for you. It's called "See Spot Run."
Yes, it's the general welfare of that geopolitical entity we call the United States. It has nothing to do with the general welfare of individual citizens or groups of citizens. It has to do only with the welfare of the republic itself.
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"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Truth for a Change View Post
Read it again, you missed a few words....

[Preamble ]
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquillity, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


FindLaw: U.S. Constitution: Articles
Yes, it says that the people provide for the common defense, etc. and that they do it by establishing the Constitution (everything following the preamble).
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Chan View Post
Yes, it says that the people provide for the common defense, etc. and that they do it by establishing the Constitution (everything following the preamble).
the preamble defines the government involvement with both defense and general welfare...as an application to the rest of the document.

If they did not mention it in the Preamble, if there was no reason for it.
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 11:09 AM
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The topic here is "Night before Obama flies abroad, Rice bars embassies from aiding candidates." How does the constitutional debate here relate to the topic?

Maybe someone should start a thread for this constitutional debate under its own title so more people know about it and can join.
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Truth for a Change View Post
the preamble defines the government involvement with both defense and general welfare...as an application to the rest of the document.
Well, not really. The preamble merely states why the people put forth the Constitution.

Quote:
If they did not mention it in the Preamble, if there was no reason for it.
Again, the preamble merely states the purpose of the Constitution: it's an introduction.
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Chan View Post
Well, not really. The preamble merely states why the people put forth the Constitution.

Again, the preamble merely states the purpose of the Constitution: it's an introduction.
So the purpose of the Constitution is to define a government that will;

Provide for the defense and promote the general welfare


It could have said: provide for the defense and general welfare.. but it did not...
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Truth for a Change View Post
So the purpose of the Constitution is to define a government that will;

Provide for the defense and promote the general welfare


It could have said: provide for the defense and general welfare.. but it did not...
And the document that follows the preamble specifically states how the federal government does these, e.g. the language about "the general welfare of the United States."
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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