Where's the care for our soldiers!? - Page 3 - Political Fever

Jojo · #21 (**permalink**) 07-21-2008, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Affrayer

So why didn't he collaborate like McCain?

Sorry Aff - not funny to me.

Skerlnik · #22 (**permalink**) 07-21-2008, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chan

So, how is that any different from what the private sector has done? An employee outlives his usefulness, fire him and take away his pension.

That employee isn't risking his life for his employer, out of a sense of duty. (Not that the private sector's complete lack of loyalty and honor is exactly praiseworthy, either.....)

I am a bit surprised. I would have thought that you'd be more upset at the way the government has historically and currently treated its troops. I'd have thought you'd use this as another gummit-bashin' opportunity. Interesting.

Jojo · #23 (**permalink**) 07-21-2008, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finny

Wait, a second.. I never said anything holier then thou crap. You are reading why too much into something. I don't like my brother serving and I rarely talk to him.

Its an issue with you. Thats fine. But my point is Iraq War, WW2, Viet Nam, First Gulf War or whatever conflict.. Military personal have always been treated like sh!t. But you missed that point.

You decided to rant and rave about this.. Thats great. But I am telling you how it is. I am not your buddy and I am certainly not disagreeing with you on the article.

But blame also has to be shared. People need some responsbility. That Soldier decided to huff sh!t. Does he not bare some of the responsbility for his actions? Or we going to be apologists for ever person who makes bad choices?

If thats a case, I guess we should forgive Congress and President Bush. Do you now see my point?

Blame has to be shared - yes, he made bad choices. But the choice was to self medicate because there aren't enough resources being used to help treat those who serve. And I agree that it is a fine american tradition - going back to the revolutionary war - to do this to our soldiers.

My point is that it f*cking needs to stop - and since Bush is in the driver's seat, he is the point man. That's why he spent all those millions to get into office. I'll hold the same standards for whoever wins this election. It was the neocon philosphy that america should be a nation building world shaper that brought the Iraq war to fruition. Bit nothing is more obscene than just using people then leaving them to wallow in misery, self medicating, until they die.

This issue goes well beyond any party - back to the Whigs and Tories - but the current resident has reponsibility.

Angel Of Mercy · #24 (**permalink**) 07-21-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jojo

This issue goes well beyond any party - back to the Whigs and Tories - but the current resident has reponsibility.

EXCELLENT thread, Jojo. While it may or may not be true that the armed forces have always been dumped on, you shouldn't let Finny get away with that particular unwarranted assumption. I'm certainly not responsible for what went on before I was born!

What we DO know, however is that our White House halfwit and his cadre of neocon nutbars and suckfish Republicans have been particularly callous in their treatment of our military. They've sent them into harm's way under-equipped, mercilessly cut their veterans' benefits and treated them shabbily upon discharge. If I were currently serving, I'd be LIVID.

Oh, and did somebody say "Walter Reed?"

Liberal-hater · #25 (**permalink**) 07-21-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel Of Mercy

EXCELLENT thread, Jojo. While it may or may not be true that the armed forces have always been dumped on, you shouldn't let Finny get away with that particular unwarranted assumption. I'm certainly not responsible for what went on before I was born!

***Get away with what? Its a well know fact that returning Vietnam Veterans were dumped on most by our veterans administration. The various names for PTSD have changed as well, i.e. 'Soldiers Heart' and 'Combat Fatigue'. I had no trouble getting both the proper inpatient and outpatient care for PTSD. Those that did have trouble with the VA care were and are the whiners and crybabies; just like the liberal whiners and crybabies that continue to make an over-inflated issue out of this.

What we DO know, however is that our White House halfwit and his cadre of neocon nutbars and suckfish Republicans have been particularly callous in their treatment of our military. They've sent them into harm's way

Oh, and did somebody say "Walter Reed?"

*** I'm surprised you had the time to respond here. Weren't you late for you anti war rally? You and Tojo, or is it JoJo relish in placing blame on this current administration, when in reality its the Congress that meets with officials from the Veterans Administration to determine or to make resolutions appropriating monies for VA Healthcare. This issue isn't any different than any other where you 'LIBERALS' feel the need to throw tax payers money (government) at every perceived problem in America. Try following Ronald Reagan's message..."Pick yourself up by your own bootstraps." And if you don't have your own boots, then I'll gladly offer mine to your soft backside arse.

Grim17 · #26 (**permalink**) 07-21-2008, 03:00 PM

Just a few questions:

1. If I started a thread called "May the Liberal liars rot in h*ll for this!", would it immediately be locked or deleted as "baiting"?

2. If I started a thread called "May the Liberal liars rot in h*ll for this!", would I receive an infraction and/or be banned?

3. If I posted an "excerpt" that was in excess of 70 paragraphs, as this thread was started with, would I be told that "Because of copyright laws" I should "only copy a few paragraphs" of an article as stated in the forum rules?

4. If I posted an excerpt from an article, and didn't include "some personal comments" as stated in the rules, would I be banned as I was in the past for this same offense?

5. If I were to say to another member "F*ck off", as the person who started this thread did, would my post be deleted just like Michael did when I called him a "liar" for lying?

6. If I were to say to another member "F*ck off", as the person who started this thread did, would I receive an infraction and/or banned because the rules clearly state that it is not permitted?

7. Does the fact that moderators of this forum have not only overlooked these infractions, but have participated in this thread, show that the rules are selectively applied based on a persons political beliefs?

I believe the answer to all 7 question is "YES", but I only base it on the actions of the moderators, so I could be wrong.

Sorry for going "off-topic", but if I started a thread asking these questions, it would be ignored or deleted.

Chan · #27 (**permalink**) 07-21-2008, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skerlnik

That employee isn't risking his life for his employer, out of a sense of duty. (Not that the private sector's complete lack of loyalty and honor is exactly praiseworthy, either.....)

Not everyone joins the military out of a sense of duty; many join for the benefits.

Quote:

I am a bit surprised. I would have thought that you'd be more upset at the way the government has historically and currently treated its troops. I'd have thought you'd use this as another gummit-bashin' opportunity. Interesting.

I simply don't see how what the government does to the veterans is really any different than what employers do to some of their employees. In both cases I operate under the assumption that they're going to chew you up and spit you out.

Jojo · #28 (**permalink**) 07-21-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liberal-hater

*** I'm surprised you had the time to respond here. Weren't you late for you anti war rally? You and Tojo, or is it JoJo relish in placing blame on this current administration, when in reality its the Congress that meets with officials from the Veterans Administration to determine or to make resolutions appropriating monies for VA Healthcare. This issue isn't any different than any other where you 'LIBERALS' feel the need to throw tax payers money (government) at every perceived problem in America. Try following Ronald Reagan's message..."Pick yourself up by your own bootstraps." And if you don't have your own boots, then I'll gladly offer mine to your soft backside arse.

What I can take from your response is you believe our govt owes nothing to soldiers who fight in america's wars - and that if republicans are in office then they have no responsibility to get the job done. The fact that the repubs held congress when this war as NOT declared - and made no appropriations plans makes them responsible for this snafu. Now that the dems hold congress, they are responsible for cleaning up this mess.

Unlike you - I do support our troops. And unlie you, I don't make excuses for either political party.

BTW - Reagan made movies during WWII - he was never a soldier.

Jojo · #29 (**permalink**) 07-21-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chan

Not everyone joins the military out of a sense of duty; many join for the benefits.

I simply don't see how what the government does to the veterans is really any different than what employers do to some of their employees. In both cases I operate under the assumption that they're going to chew you up and spit you out.

Sadly, I have to agree with you. But it still pisses me off. There aren't many jobs where your life is on the line every day in the civilian world - but there are a few. I think if we ask someone to serve, we need to make it clear that they will get virtually no support to recover and see if we still have any volunteers. Lying and promising support that doesn't materialize is immoral.

Skerlnik · #30 (**permalink**) 07-21-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chan

Not everyone joins the military out of a sense of duty; many join for the benefits.

I simply don't see how what the government does to the veterans is really any different than what employers do to some of their employees. In both cases I operate under the assumption that they're going to chew you up and spit you out.

Well, yes, but even those who join out of a purely mercenary motive deserve honor and care, when that duty is done.

On the one hand, I agree with you that troops know what they are signing up for, and have no standing to complain when they are used stupidly.

However, I would expect that this nation owes some reciprocity to these soldiers. It speaks volumes about how we view them as mere tools to be employes and then discarded. When you serve your country, it's only right that the country serve you.

I don't get this. The people who relentlessly shout "Support the Troops!" when someone criticize our military's actions in Iraq, and become patriotically indignant at the merest suggestion of impropriety or savagery of our troops, seem to be the very same people who defend our national policy of discarding them and ignoring them after their utility is done.

Why are the people considered "liberals" the ones most upset about things like Walter Reed and stop-lossing?

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