Finny:

I can't believe you are trying to relate PTSD stuff like this back on the low quality of recruits. The medical evidence is overwhelming on the issue of PTSD, that we are having a sharp increase in cases, that PTSD is the driving force behind the sharp increase in suicides, vets losing jobs and marriages, going homeless or developing depression and other mental health issues.

It sounds like you are looking for a reason to not credit a huge body of research and information that is recognized by the authorities on veteran issues.

Yep, my grandfather committed suicide in the 60s because of all he had seen during the wars he went to. He was career army. My uncle was an army radioman. He fights the VietCong in his back yard weekly. PTSD sucks and the care we give soldiers sucks.

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*** You know, placing the blame for a soldier's death or a soldier's struggles with combat related PTSD on the president is simply idiotic. We have an all volunteer military, and every one knows the risks of serving.
I happen to be a 100% disabled combat veteran with PTSD. I spent 4 months in 1992 as an inpatient at the West Haven, Connecticut Veterans hospital for PTSD. No less than 6 former and present combat veteran patients of my stay there committed suicide. While family members had a beef with certain psychiatrists there and or with the hosptial protocol, not one of them mentioned then president Bill Clinton as being responsible for their loss.

Wait, a second.. I never said anything holier then thou crap. You are reading why too much into something. I don't like my brother serving and I rarely talk to him.

Its an issue with you. Thats fine. But my point is Iraq War, WW2, Viet Nam, First Gulf War or whatever conflict.. Military personal have always been treated like sh!t. But you missed that point.

You decided to rant and rave about this.. Thats great. But I am telling you how it is. I am not your buddy and I am certainly not disagreeing with you on the article.

But blame also has to be shared. People need some responsbility. That Soldier decided to huff sh!t. Does he not bare some of the responsbility for his actions? Or we going to be apologists for ever person who makes bad choices?

If thats a case, I guess we should forgive Congress and President Bush. Do you now see my point?

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Pioneers are walking all around singing songs about Lenin and they should be shot for it.

Handlebars

"If you are looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror"- V

It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office.
H. L. Mencken

Beagán agus a rá go maith.

Economic Left/Right: 3.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.87

No..

Again you are reading way too much into something. I say what I mean, and I mean what I say. You don't have to look for hidden meanings with me.

Read my above post to JoJo.

I said it sucks, but I can't do anything about it. You can't do anything about. Its been a common theme for the Military since WW2 to ignore issues. Now before it was called "Shell Shock" today its PTSD.. stop pussifying the terms and it will actually mean something.

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Pioneers are walking all around singing songs about Lenin and they should be shot for it.

Handlebars

"If you are looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror"- V

It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office.
H. L. Mencken

Beagán agus a rá go maith.

Economic Left/Right: 3.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.87

America's care of its veterans has never been up to par. Despite all out patriotic puffing and pride, we have always discarded and ignored our veterans once their "usefulness" has passed.

"Support the Troops", indeed.

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This is what happens when we have panderers instead of leaders...

Come on, Finny, you know damned well that these kids (born in the mid-late 1980s) aren't responsible for anything. They've been brought up all their lives being told that it's always someone else's fault.

Frankly, I'm tired of all this whining about "post-traumatic stress disorder." While they may not be responsible for whatever "trauma" occurred, they are responsible for how they choose to deal with it. It isn't the traumatic event (in this case, specific incidents during the Iraq War) that caused this guy's problems, it was his own choices on how to deal with the horror of those incidents that caused them.

What was it someone once said? "War is hell." Now, let me add to it: "War is hell - deal with it!"

It's no wonder so many of these guys are coming back messed up in the head: they're a result of what American society has become - a society of whiny crybabies.

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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

So, how is that any different from what the private sector has done? An employee outlives his usefulness, fire him and take away his pension.

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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

A person who suffers from PTSD isn't being a whiny crybaby.

Let me paint a picture:

You've just returned home after being in a situation where your life was in constant danger 24/7. You may have been injured and you may have seen buddies maimed and killed. Feeling unsafe for so many months has put you in a a state where you are hyper-alert and sleep eludes you. Graphic images keep running through your mind of blood, gore, and horrific events and you CANNOT TURN THEM OFF. You cannot relax and cannot relate to people the same way you did before because when you were in the war zone sometimes people who seemed innocent turned out not to be so you learned there not to trust anyone. The foundation of personal safety and security you had before the war has been completely destroyed and you cannot feel safe again, yet you are expected to simply return to civilian life and just pick up where you left off.

How do you turn the graphic images off? What can you do to feel safe again? How can you relax enough to be yourself around your family and friends?

Some people turn to substance abuse, and it's not because they are weak or whiny babies but because they want to shut off those horrific images and relax.

I haven't been in a war zone, but I have had PTSD. It is horrible. So I have compassion for those suffering from it. It is rightfully classified as a mental illness and it wreaks havoc in the lives of those who have it and their families. People who are mentally ill frequently turn to alcohol or drugs in a desperate attempt to try and reduce the extreme emotional pain they live with. This isn't always weakness, but desperation.

So yes, I can agree that there are many whiny crybabies here in America but it is unjust to classify someone suffering from PTSD as one.

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Write in *RON PAUL* on the November ballot
****Ron Paul ("Dr. Know") for President - 2008 !!
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He was a WW II vet - PTSD didn't exist then, at least not officially.

My beef is with the fact that we knew going into this war that this would happen - but the current occupants were so set on "they will throw flowers and hold parades" that nothing was done to prepare for a huge influx of severely wounded soldiers - wounded physically and mentally. The death toll in Iraq has been minimal comparitively - which means the amount of critically wounded has been huge - yet no efforts were made during the early days of the war to plan for this overwhelming deluge. Now we hear that VA staff are instructed not to even diagnose soldiers with PTSD, because it's tooexpensive to treat them. Walter reed - the crown jewel of the VA - is rampant with mold and rats. Good people are being treated as disposable butt wipes by the govt.

And the neocons are squarely behind the lack of planning for these wars/ Whatever happened to the supposed virtues of taking responsibility and fixing problems. Deflect, spin - the more you tolerate it the more you encourage it. I don't give a rat's booty about Clinton - Bush has been where the buck stops for 7 years now. Why do you object to anyone pinning him down?

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Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.
Ernest Benn