The meaning of what is liberal and conservative changes over time.

Edit:
For clarification the actual meaning of them do not. They refer to change. Just what they stand for where does.

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May your paradise always be green, you liberties always be full, and may the ignorance of you enemies not drive you to be pro-nuke.

"We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself
into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and
trying to lift himself up by the handle."-Winston Churchill

Yes, but Lincoln was a progressive liberal. Progressive's definition has not changed over time.

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"Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states...Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds."



~Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Progressive liberal? Well let's just say it's hard to call him a conservative...

BTW: In his day, Lincoln was called a "black republican." Needless to say progressives and conservatives have changed positions so many time that neither may have standing on a historical basis.

The New Paradigm: New Conservative/Progressive re in Your World Now

The old paradigm was Liberal/Conservative. It was about moderation and compromise. The current White House changed a lot of things, one was to completely destroy that paradigm and raise the prominence of three different factions: the Neoconservatives, the New Conservatives, and the Progressives.

The unifying element in these groups is that none of them fit within the Liberal/Conservative framework. the Neoconservatives are demented far-left radicals who seek to bring about socialism by means of creating far-right fear-generators like extreme Corporate Militarism and Authoritarianism (with Fascism), the New Conservatives are moderates who honor traditional America and have found new value in that honoring (where before they took it for granted), and Progressives are seeking new solutions for building a new America.

Recognizing the instability and power vacuum that is now America, each of these groups is making their stand. The Neocons are well-known and don’t need to be mentioned. The New Conservatives form much of the American population and have champions in such public figures as Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert. Unlike the New Conservatives (who would like nothing more than a return to the Liberal/Conservative paradigm), Progressives see solutions in new projects, new conceptions and ideas for America. Progressives are more critical of liberals and conservatives and are more excited than the New Conservatives about this new system.

Let's just say that things change and as they do, who and what a conservative is and who and what a progressive is, changes with them...

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I'm Proud I never Voted For Bush!



PAT PAULSEN FOR PRESIDENT

The middle part is downright Malthusian. In a broader sense, the rest could reasonably be described that way also; although alarmist would probably be a more accurate description.

Another poster mentioned the 2006 bestseller, America Alone (subtitled, The End of the World as We Know It), by Canadian author Mark Steyn. It is an enormously important volume, in my mind; so left-leaners may (correctly) accuse this conservative of believing that Europe is already practically doomed, and America is positioned on the precipice.

There is, however, a fundamental difference: Lefties believe either that all of humankind is to blame for our predicament, or, alternatively, that Western civilization is to blame. Whether the subject is overpopulation, famine, the threat of nuclear war, global warming, or...well, whatever, the left seems to believe that humans are interlopers on a planet that would be much healthier absent Homo Sapiens, and that Westerners are especially egregious offenders.

On the other hand, I believe--and I think I can fairly say, most other conservatives also believe--that the major threats in the twentieth century came from Nazism and communism; and that the principal threat that faces us in the early part of the twenty-first century is Islamofascism. The common thread here: totalitarian ideology. This is far different from the common thread that runs through the left's littany of perceived threats.

"Conservatives" have not changed positions, "republicans" have. For example, the social conservatives and religious right where strong voters for democrats before the party moved to another direction, of which they then became republicans.

The main groups in conservatism have shifted around of time, like from traditional small government conservatives to more social conservatives and neo-conservatives. So the face has changed, but what conservatism (or liberalism on the other hand) have not changed.

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Set your destination with your heart, get there with your mind.

"The wisest men follow their own direction." - Euripides

Conservatives vote for republicans. They voted for Reagan, Bush 41, and Bush 43. All three ran on a conservative platform. They now back McCain't who they call a maverick because he sometimes strays from the conservative platform. Since Reagan, Bush 41, and Bush 43 all did the same thing, massive deficits, massive spending, superfluous wars, and McCain't is set to do the same, by there actions conservatives are republicans...

However why don't you entertain us, tell us when the conservatives haven't voted republican in the last 50 yeas....

__________________
I'm Proud I never Voted For Bush!



PAT PAULSEN FOR PRESIDENT

The full spectrum I see is traditional conservatives, neo conservatives, Christian conservatives, then you have Libertarians - many of whom hold traditional conservative beliefs, then you have moderates and independents in the middle, then you have mainline old school liberals, the more extemists liberals, and progressives. And somewhere in there is you old line traditional conservative Democrats in rural states.

Every time I see an article here declaring a good guys and bad guys situation, right wing and left wing or vice versa, I regaurd it as almost comic book style simplification.

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National Debt =

Yes all conservatives vote for republicans, that is almost accurate...

__________________
May your paradise always be green, you liberties always be full, and may the ignorance of you enemies not drive you to be pro-nuke.

"We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself
into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and
trying to lift himself up by the handle."-Winston Churchill

Is that prevarication? As a group it is more than just generally true that conservatives vote for republicans.

__________________
I'm Proud I never Voted For Bush!



PAT PAULSEN FOR PRESIDENT

Well first off America does not contain everyone.

Second unfortunately we have a crappy two party system which people are stuck with crap or crap that does not really reflect their views.

Lastly just because the majority do something does not mean all do.

__________________
May your paradise always be green, you liberties always be full, and may the ignorance of you enemies not drive you to be pro-nuke.

"We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself
into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and
trying to lift himself up by the handle."-Winston Churchill