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  #131 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Affrayer View Post
When Clinton was asked if he had sex with Lewinsky he responded by saying it all depends on what "is" is. So you're saying that Clinton didn't lie if he believed that the definition of "is" made a difference even though his intent was to mislead...
He did not lie when he said it all depends on the definition of "is". He did, however, lie when he said he didn't have sex with Monica Lewinsky.

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Here's another such lie: Bush said that other countries had "secret" evidence that Saddam was buying yellowcake from Nigeria. The statement is "true." Why is it true? Because Bush gave them the evidence and it was the same evidence Wilson had disproved. So according to you, Bush didn't lie even though he knew the evidence was faulty. Why? Because he knew it was true that they had the evidence. Now I would call that a lie because Bush's intent was to mislead...mislead with a half truth.
Assuming that you are correct in stating Bush gave them the evidence, then Bush didn't lie when he said these other countries had "secret" evidence. He knew they had the "evidence" because his Administration gave it to them. Just like he knew Saddam had WMDs because it was the United States that sold or gave them to him. So, no, he did not lie. He did not say anything that he knew was not true.

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But I do not know if it is raining or not because I'm standing indoors...all I know is that there are rain clouds in the sky. The rest I'm guessing...so I don't know if it's true or not.
Again, in order for it to be a lie, you would have to know that what you were saying is not true.



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Basically you're saying that an ignorant and or stupid person can't lie because they don't know if what they say is true or not. More importantly, since you can't prove if an ignorant person knew whether what they were saying is true or not, that person can never be accused of lying.
An ignorant or stupid person is just as capable of saying things he or she knows aren't true as anyone else. In order for something to be a lie, the person saying it would have to have known the statement was not true.

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No, you're wrong...a lie is not only the issuing of a statement known to be false but it includes any and all statements, true or false, which are issued with the expressed purpose to mislead.
Lying and misleading are not the same thing.
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Truth for a Change View Post

Snipped..
The Liberal Bush will be recognized as one of the Best ... ever..because of his successes in the Middle east...

Democrats said the same thing about Reagan.. LOL.. and he is one of the most beloved presidents..
Good Lord. You think Bush is liberal? I'm Republican and I think Bush farther right than Ghengis Khan. Who are you, Hitler's reincarnation? You think Bush is "liberal" because he's not hanging democrats, libertarians and Catholics on the White house lawn?
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumara View Post
Truth for Change and Affrayer - quit the pissing contest. You may be impressed with yourselves but you are annoying everyone else. Name-calling and sarcasm do not contribute anything positive to a discussion.

OOOPS. Sorry Lumara. I responded to something with some sarcasm, just now. I didn't see this and didn't know that sarcasm was not allowed.....

Its true, though. The two same guys slamming each other with "I'm right, your wrong but just because I'm right doesn't make me a conservative" is getting old.

I just couldn't imagine anyone but an ultraconservative describing Bush as a "liberal". LOL.
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by herasday View Post
OOOPS. Sorry Lumara. I responded to something with some sarcasm, just now. I didn't see this and didn't know that sarcasm was not allowed.....

Its true, though. The two same guys slamming each other with "I'm right, your wrong but just because I'm right doesn't make me a conservative" is getting old.

I just couldn't imagine anyone but an ultraconservative describing Bush as a "liberal". LOL.
No prob, herasday. Sarcasm isn't against the rules but these two were using it in a pissing contest which needs to stop.

Some people here use sarcasm for humor and can be very funny. I get a kick out of them.
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  #135 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 04:53 PM
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  #136 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by herasday View Post
Good Lord. You think Bush is liberal? I'm Republican and I think Bush farther right than Ghengis Khan. Who are you, Hitler's reincarnation? You think Bush is "liberal" because he's not hanging democrats, libertarians and Catholics on the White house lawn?
He had Ted Kennedy write the Education bill. He increased medicare..

He let the deficit increase by allowing Congress to spend more than it had.

Increasing the tyranny is Liberalism... He is a liberal Republican like his father, like Bob Dole, like Nixon ...

The right in America stayed home in 2006 and let the leftist Democrats take power in Congress.. the reason: tired of the liberal Bush.

It will not happen with Obama.

Last edited by Truth for a Change : 07-31-2008 at 04:59 PM.
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  #137 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Chan View Post
He did not lie when he said it all depends on the definition of "is". He did, however, lie when he said he didn't have sex with Monica Lewinsky.
Nope, he did not lie when he said he didn't have sex with Monica and for the same reason he did not lie when he said it all depends on the definition of "is,"

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Assuming that you are correct in stating Bush gave them the evidence, then Bush didn't lie when he said these other countries had "secret" evidence.
But Bush did lie when he led people to believe that was credible evidence.

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Just like he knew Saddam had WMDs because it was the United States that sold or gave them to him.
Nope, Saddam had lost a war and his country had been subject to strenuous inspection for ten years. Bush could not know crap.

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Again, in order for it to be a lie, you would have to know that what you were saying is not true.
Again, in order for it to be a lie, the person must mislead with intent.

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An ignorant or stupid person is just as capable of saying things he or she knows aren't true as anyone else.
Since the definition of a stupid or ignorant person is they don't know what's true or not, how can that be? Do you believe it is true because you said it?

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In order for something to be a lie, the person saying it would have to have known the statement was not true.
Nope, in order for something to be a lie, the person saying it would have to know that the statement is misleading.

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Lying and misleading are not the same thing.
Lying is misleading with intent to do so.

BTW: Your arguments consist all mostly completely of repeating yourself over and over again. Not very convincing.
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  #138 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by herasday View Post
You think Bush is liberal?
It's a game right wingers play. First they get some moron like Reagan or Bush elected. Then, when the moron backs their agenda they declare victory. Then when their "conservative" agenda turns to sh*t they claim their moron is really a liberal.

See? And yes, based on the sh*t factor, to a right winger, none are more liberal than Bush.

BTW: The same right wingers called Clinton a conservative.
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  #139 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 05:59 PM
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BTW: The same right wingers called Clinton a conservative.
Clinton was a quasi conservative Democrat. he championed many a con plan. But still a democrat but not Dennis kusinich by any means.
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  #140 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2008, 06:01 PM
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Bush is not a liberal, he is an idiot. not really a conservative either Odd because idiots are their bread and butter.
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