Another magnificent post!! Pure genius.

Intent is certainly part of it but regardless of the intent the person must know that what he is saying is not true in order for it to be a lie.

And, no, I'm not a conservative and you damned well had better knock off this crap!

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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

Truth for Change and Affrayer - quit the pissing contest. You may be impressed with yourselves but you are annoying everyone else. Name-calling and sarcasm do not contribute anything positive to a discussion.

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Walter Mondale: "George Bush doesn't have the manhood to apologize." George Bush: "Well, on the manhood thing, I'll put mine up against his any time."

Correct!

the person MUST know that the facts are wrong and assert them anyway.

So to prove Bush lied, one must prove that at the time that Bush made his assertions about Iraq, he knew they were false...

Exactly.

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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

So if I say "It's raining out side because I saw rain clouds." it's not a lie even though it's not raining but I saw rain clouds? Better yet I can say anything about a subject I have no knowledge of and it's not a lie even though it's wrong. For example: Bush has a green penis...that's not a lie according to your definition because I do not know Bush has or doesn't have a green penis..

Guffaw....let me guess...a right winger hiding out as a Libertarian...

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I'm Proud I never Voted For Bush!



PAT PAULSEN FOR PRESIDENT

No, he's a libertarian. If you don't know the difference, quit posting nonsense and go back to school.

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Walter Mondale: "George Bush doesn't have the manhood to apologize." George Bush: "Well, on the manhood thing, I'll put mine up against his any time."

It's not a lie if you think your statement is true. It's a lie if you say it's raining when you know that it's not raining. There is a difference between something being inaccurate and being a lie.

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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

When Clinton was asked if he had sex with Lewinsky he responded by saying it all depends on what "is" is. So you're saying that Clinton didn't lie if he believed that the definition of "is" made a difference even though his intent was to mislead...

Here's another such lie: Bush said that other countries had "secret" evidence that Saddam was buying yellowcake from Nigeria. The statement is "true." Why is it true? Because Bush gave them the evidence and it was the same evidence Wilson had disproved. So according to you, Bush didn't lie even though he knew the evidence was faulty. Why? Because he knew it was true that they had the evidence. Now I would call that a lie because Bush's intent was to mislead...mislead with a half truth.

But I do not know if it is raining or not because I'm standing indoors...all I know is that there are rain clouds in the sky. The rest I'm guessing...so I don't know if it's true or not.

Basically you're saying that an ignorant and or stupid person can't lie because they don't know if what they say is true or not. More importantly, since you can't prove if an ignorant person knew whether what they were saying is true or not, that person can never be accused of lying.

No, you're wrong...a lie is not only the issuing of a statement known to be false but it includes any and all statements, true or false, which are issued with the expressed purpose to mislead.

__________________
I'm Proud I never Voted For Bush!



PAT PAULSEN FOR PRESIDENT

Prove that Bush gave them the information? he can only lie if he knows it is false at the time he made the statement. That is what a lie is..

DAH...