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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian View Post
China also treats it's workers like subhuman garbage. Businesses go to third world countries because they have third world regulations where where people are treated like robots and worker drones in hot, dangerous environments for dozens of hours at a clip, while the owners sit atop golden thrones like feudal lords and barons patting themselves on the back for their business acumen.
Really? I did not know that.

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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian View Post
The solution is to turn Americans into wage slaves that work in sweatshops so they can compete with other sweatshop slavery. Great! Sounds Libertarian enough. It just might work, finny.
No, its actually about doing the opposite. The WTO allows thats, not once has the WTO ever said "China you need to raise your working standards or pay".

I have no problems with Unions, but I have a problem with Unions who muscle their way to pay they don't deserve. Someone sitting on the line watching a Computer do all the work should not be paid $25 an hour. Nor should Unions have stupid clauses protecting seniority. If a person screwed up, or aren't qualified for a position, you should be able to fire that person.

Unions should be Democratic via secret ballot, not a public ballot which seems to be the norm today. If a Union member says no or yes (the opposite of what the Union wants).. he or she should be protected by secret ballot.. end of story.

If a Company, wants to fire all their employees for striking, they should be able to do that. The Federal Government doesn't allow their Unions to strike so why should a Company have to put up with it?

But we play favorites to Unions, and they raised cost so much that industries have collapsed in this nation. You know, Steel, Auto and Airline.

You know the strongest the Country ever was in creating wealth was when it was Manufacturing. But today, Overly pro-union folks don't realize they were part of the reason Manufacturing left. Now we are based on Consumerism and Service base jobs. These jobs to not create Wealth. To survive and grow Economically you need to create Wealth.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 12:07 AM
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You don't get anywhere with policy if you antagonize other countries, unless your goal is to develop obstructionist responses from them. Sometimes, your interests are not really your interests or "justified" in the first place.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 12:40 AM
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It is what doors he can open for us, that I am concerned about as well. but to think likability implies he will be betrothed to them is nonsense.
Doors? What doors is he going to open to us? We are a member of NATO, member of WTO, NAFTA, SAFTA (yes we already started free trade with South America).. The world doesn't offer us anything new.

Likability does imply that. President Bush is not liked because He does what he feels is best for the United States of America. It's a very big problem based on Politics. World Politics is a totally different beast then American Politics. In Europe, their Conservatives are our Liberals. In Asia the hardliners are 10xs worse then our hardliners.

Its why we call it American Politics and we have American parties. Its not wise to say "I am liked by the rest of the world" in middle America. It gives the appearance weakness and it will be pounced on more then I am.

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How about being able to call them? how about help in defending against global threats. Your bitterness to the rest of the world is showing. and it looks bad on you. He can get more done with friends then with enemys.
We always call them. President Bush doesn't have a problem calling World Leaders. Hmm, lets see, how many nations are helping us? Canada, Germany, France, UK, Ireland, Italy, Denmark, Estonia, Romania, Sweden, Poland, Turkey.. 142 countries have agreed to freeze assets, 89 give fly over rights, 76 have given landing rights, 23 have given rights for US Military forces to be used in Offensive Operations. Any more questions?

Just because you aren't "liked" doesn't mean Countries aren't helping you.



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the concepts of his loyalty, and likability are being confused here. If you would like to discuss his loyalty do so separately.
No, I am not confusing his loyalty. I am bring up the point if you are liked that means you only want to be liked, I'd rather have a hated President who did the right thing.. instead of worried about being liked.

I.E. Ronald Reagan.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian View Post
You don't get anywhere with policy if you antagonize other countries, unless your goal is to develop obstructionist responses from them. Sometimes, your interests are not really your interests or "justified" in the first place.

Did I say we should antagonize? No.. I could careless what other Countries do. They only have one goal, and that is to make it better for their people. Iran can have all the nuclear power they want. Hell,If I was President, I'd build them a Nuclear Power plant.

My interest is whats best for Americans. If I want to drill offshore.. I'll push for it. If I want to drill in ANWR, I'll push for it. I'll strength the dollar and cause the Chinese Trade Deficit to rise and demand payment monthly.

If I raise the CO2 output, I could careless what the Enviros says. As they didn't complain to big ol China nor India.

I don't live in a "lets all get along" world, because I live in Reality. Nobody complains about China and what they do ( direct contracts in Africa for oil at 150 a barrel, Drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, financing the Sudan Crisis). So why should I care?
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It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 01:18 AM
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It can only be good news if the world is excited and happy about who our next president will probably be.

Go Obama!
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 02:37 AM
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I won't go into why you should care or why your view is wrong. Our ethical philosophies are theoretically incompatible and it wouldn't do anything but waste both of our time. There really can be no reflective equalibrium.


There are, however, factual inaccuracies in your post, such as your assertion no one cares or complains about china or india. In fact, many do, including environmentalists. And they do attempt to make progress at changing things the government does (to a limited extent, they have been successful). So when you say nobody complains about China, thats just not true.

Moreover, what you think is in the interest of Americans isn't necessarily in the interests of Americans. Such as drilling in ANWR, which is largely a waste of time and money that ought to be invested into things like nuclear.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Technocratic_Utilitarian View Post


There are, however, factual inaccuracies in your post, such as your assertion no one cares or complains about china or india. In fact, many do, including environmentalists. And they do attempt to make progress at changing things the government does (to a limited extent, they have been successful). So when you say nobody complains about China, thats just not true.
Really? When is the last time China got called out by other members of the Kyoto treaty for increasing their emissions? All I hear is the US didn't ratify it.. blah blah..

Yet, the Country who did sign it and ratified it, increased their Greenhouse gas output..
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Pioneers are walking all around singing songs about Lenin and they should be shot for it.

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"If you are looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror"- V

It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office.
H. L. Mencken

come on you know you wanna play football..

Beagán agus a rá go maith.

Economic Left/Right: 3.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.87
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2008, 09:45 PM
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Not really. Whats good for the Goose isn't always good for the Gander. We need whats best for the US, not the rest of the World. If that pisses them off.. Oh well, don't call on us when you go to war.
Is poultry really the best argument you can manage here?

All other characteristics being equal - it is usually better to be liked than disliked when you are looking to work cooperatively.

China and India will have a surplus of what we will soon lack - young workers.
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