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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by SamInTheSouth View Post
If I had Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton telling me that for the last 40 years I might believe it too.

Affirmative action is nothing more than institutionalized racism and an antiquated system that does not achieve its intentioned goal. Equality is not achieved by giving someone a job simply because they are a minority race. Someone is still being discriminated against. All affirmative action does today is create animosity and resentment between races.

The U.S. has come a long, long way from the Civil Rights days. It's time to start accepting responsibility for one's self and stop blaming your shortcomings on others.

Got such a firm grip on your piece of the pie...and you ain't up for sharing, are you?
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
Just because two of three blacks say they are discriminated against, doesn't answer the question of "why" they are discriminated against. The assumption is it's because of the color of their skin, and although that probably plays a part in it on rare occasions, my contention is that it has to do with the fact that many African-Americans haven't assimilated themselves into the American business culture.

You really need to listen to the speeches Bill Cosby has given to African-American audiences, to understand where I'm coming from here.
Bill Cosby is an exception to the Black rules, and as rare as a diamond. His entertainment career wasn't there for millions of blacks who were discriminated against. They have assimilated themselves into the black business culture with no problem, and as you know Affirmative Action employer laws were not written for black business owners, they were written for white business owners. And once some success was preceived it was expanded to include other minorities discriminated against because of their gender.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamInTheSouth View Post
If I had Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton telling me that for the last 40 years I might believe it too.

Affirmative action is nothing more than institutionalized racism and an antiquated system that does not achieve its intentioned goal. Equality is not achieved by giving someone a job simply because they are a minority race. Someone is still being discriminated against. All affirmative action does today is create animosity and resentment between races.
I am glad you see that AA does not achive its goals, which is what those numbers represent, and we need tougher laws to assimulate workers without regard to skin color.

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The U.S. has come a long, long way from the Civil Rights days. It's time to start accepting responsibility for one's self and stop blaming your shortcomings on others.
Well of course! Indeed! It is time the Whitey business owner starts taking responsibility for his slavery actions and getting by a persons skin color in the work place. We just can't seem to drag the republican anchor down the congressional isle to give blacks tougher laws to fight discrimination in the work place. What we have today, is obviously not working. Getterdone!!!
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
The color of a persons skin isn't what causes discrimination. What causes discrimination is the lack of education and the inability of some minorities to assimilate themselves into the American business culture. To make the big bucks, you have to walk the walk, and talk the talk.

Bill Cosby has been saying the exact same things to all black audiences for years, so I don't want to hear anyone insinuate that my comments are in any way "racist".

Affirmative action has run it's course, and it's time for "ability" to be the deciding factor when hiring someone.
How dare you attempt to "use" Bill Cosby and his commentary on "black life" against "black people", in a despicable exercise to elevate your own argument of bias and racism.....
Most racists, if you didn't already know, never ever consider themselves "racists"....it's called "denial".
You know nothing of "black life", what it means to be "black in America", and are therefore, in no position to make commentary....
As for your interjection of Bill Cosby...he was taken to task for his comments by Dr. Michael Eric Dyson, in his book, "Was Bill Cosby right?"

Link: Was Bill Cosby right about race in America? - History and politics - MSNBC.com

" In the New York Times a few days after his remarks, I offered that Cosby’s comments “betray classist, elitist viewpoints rooted in generational warfare,” that he was “ill-informed on the critical and complex issues that shape people’s lives,” and that his words only “reinforce suspicions about black humanity.”

"Of course, the ink and applause Cosby has won rest largely on a faulty assumption: that he is the first black figure to stare down the “pathology” that plagues poor blacks. But to believe that ignores how figures from black intellectual W.E.B. Du Bois to civil rights leader Jesse Jackson, in varying contexts, with differing results, have spoken controversially about the black poor. Equally intriguing is the leap of faith one must make in granting Cosby revered status as a racial spokesman and critic. He has famously demurred in his duties as a racial representative. He has flatly refused over the years to deal with blackness and color in his comedy. Cosby was defensive, even defiant, in his views, as prickly a racial avoider as one might imagine for a man who traded so brilliantly on dimensions of black culture in his comedy. While Cosby took full advantage of the civil rights struggle, he resolutely denied it a seat at his artistic table. Thus it’s hard to swallow Cosby’s flailing away at youth for neglecting their history, and overlooking the gains paid for by the blood of their ancestors, when he reneged on its service when it beckoned at his door. It is ironic that Cosby has finally answered the call to racial leadership forty years after it might have made a constructive difference. But it is downright tragic that he should use his perch to lob rhetorical bombs at the poor....."

So, Bill Cosby is, a bona fide cultural icon, and a black American success story...but philosopher or pundit, he is not.
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Old 06-02-2008, 09:58 PM
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What we have today, is obviously not working.
What makes it obvious?
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
Just because two of three blacks say they are discriminated against, doesn't answer the question of "why" they are discriminated against. The assumption is it's because of the color of their skin, and although that probably plays a part in it on rare occasions, my contention is that it has to do with the fact that many African-Americans haven't assimilated themselves into the American business culture.

You really need to listen to the speeches Bill Cosby has given to African-American audiences, to understand where I'm coming from here.
And of course, you're speaking from personal experience and knowledge?
You, perhaps, are the most clueless individual.
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Old 06-02-2008, 10:02 PM
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How can anyone state that there is no discrimination anymore? Are you kidding me?
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Old 06-02-2008, 10:05 PM
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Affirmative action is only a way to slow problems in the United States because as was said before, the main reason that affirmative action is needed today is that minorities aren't precieved as being as buissines competitive. I feel that the main cause of this is that groups that have traditionaly had limited oppurtinities because of oppurtunity issues, mostly related to money.

Instead of affirmative action more money needs to be spent improving education and inner cities. Even though that would require more money, it would focus on the core of the problems. Instead of focusing on helping minorities money should be spent on helping the poor, because those are the only minorities that should be helped.
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Old 06-02-2008, 10:07 PM
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White women have benefitted most from AA. So it look like it might be helping the wrong people. Because Black people still lead the nation in rates of Abortion, crime, poverty and nearly any other negative statistic. I agree AA misses the point and doesn't address the "why's". There are plenty of different forms of bias. As a person who is privvy to the hiring and promotion practices of a large corporation, attitude, appearance, demeanor, and personality figure highly in those kinds of decisions. Bill Cosby is right-on in his assessment of the situation.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2008, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronssongs View Post
And of course, you're speaking from personal experience and knowledge?
You, perhaps, are the most clueless individual.
First, were you calling me a racist in your previous post?

Second, one of the closest friends I have and my business partner is African-American. We had this discussion many years ago, and he asked me why I thought black people weren't succeeding the way they should. I said basically the same thing to him (although much more detailed) as I said on this thread. He not only agreed with me, he shook my hand and congratulated me for being one of the few white people he's met that does get it. That conversation took place long before Cosby's comments ever happened. So don't give me any s**t about not knowing what the hell I'm talking about.

And third, just because you don't like Conservatives, doesn't give you license to attack and insult at will pal... So why don't you go and soak you head.
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