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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2008, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by leviathon435 View Post
To Chan, Space and Lumara: I fully realise what you're saying, but the point of democracy is that we confer power to the people, who give it out as they wish to representatives, we may not like the results but I don't think democracy is wrong. We can make rules about human rights that no governmnet can break, or even have a written constitution, but I think the government should be allowed to protect its citizens even if that is from their own stupidity. Just because I believe this does not however mean I agree with any or all of the actions of any government necessarily, I can have views on what the government should do with its power.
The American founding fathers were sufficiently wary of democracy that they gave us a constitutional republic instead. Democracy is a fancy name for mob-rule (as in rule by the mob/crowd/masses, not as in rule by the Mafia). Also, rights are not something people are given by government but are inherent in the human species (natural rights).
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2008, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by diuretic View Post
On Japan - they have immensely powerful agencies of social control beyond the police. The criminal justice system is very harsh by western standards.

I agree with you about the automatic weapons. Not necessary for general duties police and certainly not for the traffic cop on the motorcycle. I think it's a sign that militarism isn't just an official policy, I suspect it's strong in the informal culture as well.
But when the criminals are carrying even more powerful weapons...
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2008, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Chan View Post
The American founding fathers were sufficiently wary of democracy that they gave us a constitutional republic instead. Democracy is a fancy name for mob-rule (as in rule by the mob/crowd/masses, not as in rule by the Mafia). Also, rights are not something people are given by government but are inherent in the human species (natural rights).
I do accept that a constitution may be drawn up to limit what a government can do, as long as the constitution can be altered, I actually quite like the American constitution but I feel that it has suffered from having leaders that ignore it and leaders unwilling to significantly change it. But I do not accept the idea of natural rights as your link presents it.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2008, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Chan View Post
The American founding fathers were sufficiently wary of democracy that they gave us a constitutional republic instead. Democracy is a fancy name for mob-rule (as in rule by the mob/crowd/masses, not as in rule by the Mafia). Also, rights are not something people are given by government but are inherent in the human species (natural rights).
Not at all. Liberal democracies, such as the US, are concerned - and rightly so - about the probability of the tyranny of the majority. It's just that other countries have different forms of checks and balances. This argument that a republic can't be a democracy is misleading but I've even read it in at least one academic political text in the US. The government in form is republican but its philosophy is of a democracy. You've failed to look at other democracies that are also republics or constitutional monarchies or perhaps other forms to acknowledged that a modern democracy is far from the mob rule feared by the founding fathers.

Republican theory in politics is another topic.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2008, 05:39 PM
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But when the criminals are carrying even more powerful weapons...
It's always been thus, the NYPD didn't become armed until armed criminals became a threat.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2008, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by diuretic View Post
And the termination of the fastest

Just remember that old saying.

There are old pilots.

And there are bold pilots.

But there are no old, bold pilots....
No offense but I have always hated that saying.

Chuck Yager is an Old Bold Pilot and so were many others.

They were well trained and very calculating but that doesn't mean they were any less bold.

My father told me once, just before I was about to go up against an Olympic level fencer in a Sabre match, "Some times all its takes is unmitigated gall."
I beat that fencer that day.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2008, 05:37 AM
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No offense but I have always hated that saying.

Chuck Yager is an Old Bold Pilot and so were many others.

They were well trained and very calculating but that doesn't mean they were any less bold.

My father told me once, just before I was about to go up against an Olympic level fencer in a Sabre match, "Some times all its takes is unmitigated gall."
I beat that fencer that day.
No offence taken - I actually thought of the adapted version but decided to use the original.

Chuck Yeager is a legend, my admiration for him knows no bounds (I'm not a pilot of any type).

But my point was about recklessness and it was a response to Finny, a bit of a leg-pull.

There's not a thing wrong with boldness, so long as it's tempered. If it isn't then it becomes recklessness.

btw well done against your opponent - that took boldness and skill.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2008, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by diuretic View Post
Wrong. The statistics tell the tale. They make driving safer. If legislatures want to generate more money they just up the ante - and they do.
Just like wearing helmets while riding motorcycles, as if that stops that concussion you'll get if you fly around a corner too fast
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2008, 10:32 AM
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Just like wearing helmets while riding motorcycles, as if that stops that concussion you'll get if you fly around a corner too fast
You know why shopping centres have parking spaces for motorcycles right near the door?

Because the shopping centre owners know the motorcyclists haven't got time to spare.

Told to me by an avid motorcyclist.

Anyway I like Bill Cosby's explanation for seat belts. It's so the paramedics can find the body
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2008, 12:53 PM
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Not at all. Liberal democracies, such as the US, are concerned - and rightly so - about the probability of the tyranny of the majority.
The United States of America is not, and has never been, a democracy and has never been entirely Liberal either.

Quote:
It's just that other countries have different forms of checks and balances.
If any.

Quote:
This argument that a republic can't be a democracy is misleading but I've even read it in at least one academic political text in the US. The government in form is republican but its philosophy is of a democracy. You've failed to look at other democracies that are also republics or constitutional monarchies or perhaps other forms to acknowledged that a modern democracy is far from the mob rule feared by the founding fathers.

Republican theory in politics is another topic.
It's philosophy is not democratic (as in the adjective form of democracy. Democracy, by it's very nature, is direct rule by the citizenry. Whenever you start putting layers between the citizens and ruling (as you do with representative government), it ceases to be democratic.
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

Reply With Quote
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