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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2008, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Finny View Post
That was the point of the Author. That State's handled things better. That no matter how many times the Federal Government tells you they know best.. its always the Federal Government screwing you over.

Unfortunately, the state wasn't very helpful during Katrina.
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"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2008, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Zephyr View Post
Why can't the people and the government work together to try to solve problems? Why is it that the government is always demonized?

I agree that there are problems, but shouldn't the goal be to fix the problems rather than gutting the government?
Gutting the federal government is one way to solve the problems.
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A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes toward the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2008, 10:21 PM
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That strikes me as like amputating your arm when you only have gangrene in a finger.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 01:50 AM
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And you obviously don't understand American Politics or who voted for what.
Nonsensical drivel. I'm studying to major in both social studies and economics. How about you?

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t was a Republican President by the name of Lincoln who pushed for no slavery.
Where did I indicate I'm a liberal, let alone a Democrat? Most socialists are very adept at avoiding the two party partisan nonsense - seeing them both as tools for the capitalist class. Lincoln happens to be one of the presidents whom I deeply admire; yes, he held an office that I think would be better served abolished.

In many ways, my reflections on Lincoln are much like Marx's own as he wrote a letter to the American president praising him for calling to the end of slavery.

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It was Republicans who pushed for the 30 years of reforms in the South after The Civil War.
Read my lips: I'm not a Democrat. For someone so smart, you have an odd habit of reverting to mainstream partisan attacks.

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(Where was your precious FDR, hmm?)
FDR was a proponent of capitalism, and you can verify that statement with his own writings and speeches. You don't have a grasp of scientific analysis of history or class domination, which is expectable, but really - stop trying to connect me with Democrats. It's deplorable. If anything call on great socialists like Norman Thomas, Martin Luther King Jr., and Eugene Debs.


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It's "International" as Joe and Bosco put it.
Read Marx. Change through workers' action will occur on national scales, towards international cooperation. I'm sorry if you have a problem with that statement.

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But point of saying that is, if you find how the current system in American is that bad why do you stay?
For the same reason Martin Luther King didn't pack up and leave to New Zealand. I'm sure you would have been calling for that socialist to leave if you were old enough to be part of the Civil Rights' movement.

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Obviously would you like to be part of a Govermnent that has your views.
Actually, I'm a proponent of direct democracy and anarchism so no, I wouldn't.

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Real Democracy is based on the rule of the Mob. 51%
If you want to be technical, democracy was most like "demarchy" in Greek times.

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of the Nation can cause the other 49% to suffer.
Democracy equates to rule by the people. There are different forms of democracy, ranging from the one you specified to cooperative democracy where everyone must agree to change.

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While in an Ideal Constitutional Republic (which hasn't happened in America in 150 years)
This "ideal" republic allowed for little input by the regular white persona, let alone females and ethnic minorities. Technically we still have a poll tax by defaulting towards drivers' licenses, but at least the progress achieved in the '60s made a difference.

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I believe all people are equal. Be it a Socialist, a Capitalist, an African-American or European-American. While you on the other hand want to crush Capitalism. So how is that fair?
Your personal attacks are becoming obnoxiously absurd. I am firmly in support of individual equality. It's strange to have an anarcho-communist called "anti-equality" for believing that all men should have an equal say in their survival.

You realize Marx likely penned (and did popularize) the phrase capitalism to mean, explicitly, a system of exploitation by the bourgeoisie, who would rule the state and commence with established property "rights?" And you question why I want to destroy such exploitation?

Capitalism would naturally lose out under anarchist pretenses. There's no need for me to destroy it through the use of blunt force (compared to the force required for the bourgeoisie). Capitalism only exists because the state exists.

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Huh? Has Ron Paul said he wants 1% of the current owning 50% of the wealth? No.
Of course not. Bill Gates wouldn't explicitly state he wants to kill Apple and have total market dominance either, but his actions indicate such. The idea isn't found in the stratosphere. The richest 1% already own 40+% of the country's wealth. Their advances in the past 30 years have been stupendous.

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He wants every American to have a chance, to look at them not as poor and a Government project (thats what it is) but as human beingings who given the chance to compete will flourish.
When people enter the marketplace with property rights that support their notions of proper wealth accumulation (inherit lands taken from native populations, genocide, forced disease, manipulation of capital), it's not "chance." It's blind luck. A person born to middle-income parents has less than 2% chance of making it to the top 5% income earners. Remember that capitalists, by the definition of the word, usually constitute the upper .5% of wealthy individuals.

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You are actually holding people down.
I ran for public office this year with one of my platform positions being a reduction in property taxes. What do you have to show for your petty love affair with helping people succeed?

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It's natural for a person to want more.
Obviously. Socialists haven't denied such a desire.

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If we tell a poor person that they are entitled to a certain amount of money and they have to be poor to get it.. what's the incentive to improve yourself?
What kind of crap is this? It's clear to me you haven't invested any serious amount of time into what socialists demand. Go pick up a book on Marxism. And don't tell me you've read the Communist Manifesto - that little bit of significant history is geared towards comrades already up-in-arms over class dominance.

Socialists grant that children, the elderly, the mentally incapable, and workers should join together with mutual support for another. If someone who is healthy in the head refuses to work by his own will, he'll receive no support for the community outside of a single vote and probably land since land is necessary for survival. (If I don't grant you the right to land, you are technically a trespasser on this Earth).

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You still don't get what Libertarianism calls for.
I was a right-libertarian, thank you very much. I know well of your intentions, specifically: follow Madison's interpretation of the Constitution. Allow free market capitalism to weed out all and any problems. Tie down the government's ability to interfere in property and individual liberties.

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The closer the Government to you, the stronger it is. I.E. Your local Government (City and so on).. has more power then the State and the State has more power then the Federal Government.
I ran for mayor of my city, and I can tell you politicians at any level are creeps. The only solution is democracy, specifically under an anarchist system.

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While you on the other hand can't live without the Federal Government programs and it's central power. So who's the Statist?
I'll use the words of a fanatical free marketeer who loftily killed thousands of innocent Leftists: there you go again.

I'm an anarchist. I support federal programs for the time being because they are progressive - that being, they meet the needs of more people than the alternative of nothing.


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Last edited by GeneCosta : 05-12-2008 at 02:02 AM.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
Nonsensical drivel. I'm studying to major in both social studies and economics. How about you?
You are studying? I have an MBA minored in Economics and I currently provide advice on Economic Policy for a local Democrat running for Congress in Ohio. I also work for a company started by my friend after recieving my MBA. In 2 years we have brought 2,000 jobs to the inner city of Columbus with partnerships with Fortune 500 companies. Any more questions on my credentials?
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
Where did I indicate I'm a liberal, let alone a Democrat? Most socialists are very adept at avoiding the two party partisan nonsense - seeing them both as tools for the capitalist class. Lincoln happens to be one of the presidents whom I deeply admire; yes, he held an office that I think would be better served abolished.
Most Socialist hide behind the title of Democrat. In fact so do Communist. As the Democratic Party speaks of Social Programs to redistrub wealth. You can admire Lincoln. I personally don't, He was the first tyrant in US History.
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
In many ways, my reflections on Lincoln are much like Marx's own as he wrote a letter to the American president praising him for calling to the end of slavery.
Karl Marx's had a spotty History when it came to those things. He deplored Jews as a scourge, He called Mexicans lazy, and he thought that a human is defined by their genes. You should read Karl Marx, Racist... it was written by a former Communist Nathaniel Weyl.
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
Read my lips: I'm not a Democrat. For someone so smart, you have an odd habit of reverting to mainstream partisan attacks.
Who did I attack? You made the claim I wanted slavery, that I support expliotation. I just showed you that's pretty damn flawed as every Socialist, Communist in hiding as a Democrat claims Republicans and Libertarians just want to expliot. But there are these things called Facts. I just showed you facts. Thats not a partisan attack. Its called truth.
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
FDR was a proponent of capitalism, and you can verify that statement with his own writings and speeches. You don't have a grasp of scientific analysis of history or class domination, which is expectable, but really - stop trying to connect me with Democrats. It's deplorable. If anything call on great socialists like Norman Thomas, Martin Luther King Jr., and Eugene Debs.
Its not deplorable when Democrats are using stuff from Marx right? Thats what they are doing. Clinton, Obama and Edwards (though he's a nobody now) have elements of Socialist programs. Why can't you just called a spade a spade? Are you afraid your anti-state ideology is actually the mainstream and makes it seem a little bit more unattractive to a student?Can't rebel against a system which has your own ideologies now can you?
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
Read Marx. Change through workers' action will occur on national scales, towards international cooperation. I'm sorry if you have a problem with that statement.
Unfortantley, I do know Marx. As I told you before, I was raised by Irish Socialist and their never ending speeches.. but they come running to me (their capitalist son) for money so they can enjoy the spoils of life. Ah yes, and that caused me to point out that Socialism and Communism is naturally imperialistic just as Capitalism. The only difference is that Capitialism has a stopping point (when you go broke). Socialism and Communism has none. Btw, how is the movement going? USSR fell.. and its all capitalist. Damn that must suck.
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
For the same reason Martin Luther King didn't pack up and leave to New Zealand. I'm sure you would have been calling for that socialist to leave if you were old enough to be part of the Civil Rights' movement.
Nope. As MLK called for equality, something I believe in, which puts MLK above Marx and 99% of Socialist in this world. And that believe of equality is something all forms of Economics should accept. *
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
Actually, I'm a proponent of direct democracy and anarchism so no, I wouldn't.
So you are a proponet of Direct Democracy, which is the true form of Democracy. But as an Anarchist how do you see your system working out then? Suprised you disagree with Bookchin.
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
If you want to be technical, democracy was most like "demarchy" in Greek times.
Sure.
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
Democracy equates to rule by the people. There are different forms of democracy, ranging from the one you specified to cooperative democracy where everyone must agree to change.
Of course, but cooperative democracy is a pipe dream as 100% of the masses never agrees. Unless you do fraud. *
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
This "ideal" republic allowed for little input by the regular white persona, let alone females and ethnic minorities. Technically we still have a poll tax by defaulting towards drivers' licenses, but at least the progress achieved in the '60s made a difference.
Nobody said this the Republic in 1789 was ideal. Even the Founding Fathers knew it would take time to rid this country of Slavery. The ironic part of this, is that you know that. If the Republic was ideal at that time, they would have no Amendment process in the US Constitution, nor would they have allowed other States (such as Ohio) into the United States a mere 14 years later. They argued for the Republic to better its self, it would take eternal vigilance. Of course, and I believe its a poll tax. But its not drivers' Licenses but State IDs or better. But Supreme Court ruled you can only force it if you give the IDs away for free. Such as they do in Indiana.
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
Your personal attacks are becoming obnoxiously absurd. I am firmly in support of individual equality. It's strange to have an anarcho-communist called "anti-equality" for believing that all men should have an equal say in their survival.
Again, its not a personal attack. You want to crush Capitalism. That is not equality.
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
You realize Marx likely penned (and did popularize) the phrase capitalism to mean, explicitly, a system of exploitation by the bourgeoisie, who would rule the state and commence with established property "rights?" And you question why I want to destroy such exploitation?
Yep. And Marx also penned a few things that Nazi Germany used to make a case to kill the weak and jews. Should we be talking about that? But I personally tie the word of Capitalism to Adam Smith and his* The Wealth of Nations. Which he wrote about Capitalism and Free Markets way before Karl Marx's used Capitalism as a scapegoat and spun Smith's ideas for his personal gain.. just like a Capitalist.. oh the irony.
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
Capitalism would naturally lose out under anarchist pretenses. There's no need for me to destroy it through the use of blunt force (compared to the force required for the bourgeoisie). Capitalism only exists because the state exists.
That is your thought. But we also know that Socialism and Communism can only exsist because of the State as well. So it might be a good idea to rethink your ideology.
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
Of course not. Bill Gates wouldn't explicitly state he wants to kill Apple and have total market dominance either, but his actions indicate such. The idea isn't found in the stratosphere. The richest 1% already own 40+% of the country's wealth. Their advances in the past 30 years have been stupendous.
That's called competetion.* If Bill Gates didn't have that mentality, he would be spending all his wealth in 3rd World Nations. And Apple takes Bill Gates to task by producing a better product. Who wins out of that? The Consumer. And that 1% provides 40% of the jobs. You take that wealth away, 40% of the nation doesn't work. Moving wealth from one hand to another doesn't solve the issue, it creates bigger issues. As that 1% are people who earned their way to the top, who made money and spent that money wisely, keeping people employed.. And moving it to the State just makes you a "slave" of the State.
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
When people enter the marketplace with property rights that support their notions of proper wealth accumulation (inherit lands taken from native populations, genocide, forced disease, manipulation of capital), it's not "chance." It's blind luck. A person born to middle-income parents has less than 2% chance of making it to the top 5% income earners. Remember that capitalists, by the definition of the word, usually constitute the upper .5% of wealthy individuals.
And thats your problem. You are worried about things that happen over 100 years ago. Many of those lands you speak of were recieved via treaties like Manhattan. But thats a different argument. I was born to middle income parents. I've moved up. So did my brother. But we did it through our Parents hard work. So don't tell me the facts and figures. I certainly know how hard it is to make less the 30k a year and put a kid through college. But I also know that if you want it bad enough you will get there.
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
I ran for public office this year with one of my platform positions being a reduction in property taxes. What do you have to show for your petty love affair with helping people succeed?
Good for you. You ran for an office and lost. Like I said, I advise a Democrat running for Congress in Ohio. I also work for a company bringing jobs to the inner city. I don't need an ego boost for what I do. And I certainly don't need to justify why I do what I do. This fall you will most likely hear from me while I am having meetings with other Congressional staffers. Then in 2010, you'll see me running for a Congressional seat.
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
What kind of crap is this? It's clear to me you haven't invested any serious amount of time into what socialists demand. Go pick up a book on Marxism. And don't tell me you've read the Communist Manifesto - that little bit of significant history is geared towards comrades already up-in-arms over class dominance.
Of course, I don't care what Socialist demand. They can have a march in Tienanman Square for I care. Maybe they'll be lucky enough not to be slaugthered by their Chinese comrades. But here is your issue with me, I do know Marxism, Marxist-Leninist, Maoist, Stalinist and even Facism (which is the 3rd way to your utopia) and I question you on it. You don't like that, and you obviously don't like the fact, that I refuse to buy into it. It's actually quite sad that you say the Communist Manifesto is not geared to the masses. When it's written to rise up the masses and is used by all Socialist and Communist as their examples of how things should work. Its geared to the masses and not the comrades. Do you wish I read Das Kaptial? THe Condition of the Working Class in England in 1844? The Poverty of Philosphy?* Or maybe Contribution and Critique of Political Economy? To understand those you need to read the Manifesto.
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
Socialists grant that children, the elderly, the mentally incapable, and workers should join together with mutual support for another. If someone who is healthy in the head refuses to work by his own will, he'll receive no support for the community outside of a single vote and probably land since land is necessary for survival. (If I don't grant you the right to land, you are technically a trespasser on this Earth).
Hmm? Bull. It's the State the determines this. Its never the Workers. As we saw in USSR and elsewhere. And even then the State decided some people who countered the Socialist thought was not worthy. And set them to their deaths.* But we'll get to that in a minute. *
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
I was a right-libertarian, thank you very much. I know well of your intentions, specifically: follow Madison's interpretation of the Constitution. Allow free market capitalism to weed out all and any problems. Tie down the government's ability to interfere in property and individual liberties.
I never said, I'd directly follow Madison. I actually draw my influence from many. Jefferson, Madion, Paine, Smith, Henry, Friedman, Mises, and others.Yes, Keep the Government out using immient domain and liberties. As you are only free when the Government does not control you. When Governments legislate morality and ethics.. you become a criminal, all that changes is the law.
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Originally Posted by Claire Wolfe
The Ideal Citizen of a Tyrannical State is the man or women who bows in silent obedience in exchange for status a well cared herd animal. Thinking people become the Tryants worst enemies.
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
I ran for mayor of my city, and I can tell you politicians at any level are creeps. The only solution is democracy, specifically under an anarchist system.
So, you ran for mayor.. doesn't that make you a Politician as well? That kinda makes you a creep too. I reject that. As anarchist are disorganized and chaotic. They have no rhyme or reason to their believes. It usually goes the way of is it unpopular, yeah lets do it.*
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
I'll use the words of a fanatical free marketeer who loftily killed thousands of innocent Leftists: there you go again.
Thanks, Ronald Reagan was a smart guy. He was an idiot when it came to supporting the Contras.
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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
I'm an anarchist. I support federal programs for the time being because they are progressive - that being, they meet the needs of more people than the alternative of nothing.
They are not progressive.. They are regessive. Having Quotas makes the equality factor null and void. Quotas are a way of saying someone isn't up to task. They don't help anybody. Giving someone money and saying stay poor does not serve to help the society.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 04:55 PM
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In 2 years we have brought 2,000 jobs to the inner city of Columbus with partnerships with Fortune 500 companies.
"Brought" is a negligible term since capitalism destroys jobs in the process of creating new ones, with no immediate replacements. I would also comment that I have my own printing business - which runs as a workers' council. Unlike you I don't savor in exploitation.

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Most Socialist hide behind the title of Democrat.
Actually, they don't. You should get out more often.

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In fact so do Communist.


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s the Democratic Party speaks of Social Programs to redistrub wealth.
Evidence you have no clue what socialism entails. Socialism is not about redistributing wealth - it's about providing workers the fruit of their labor with just property laws - in the case of communism/anarchism, no laws at all. In many ways capitalism redistributes wealth by taking from the workers to fuel capitalist investment.

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He was the first tyrant in US History.
I expected as much from a pseudo-libertarian. General Lee was a swell guy, wasn't he?

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He deplored Jews as a scourge,
Absolute slander. Marx deplored the separate Jewish identity, not Jews. He was also critical of all racial and ethnic heritages. Why don't you stop making stuff up, Finny?

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thought that a human is defined by their genes.
Uh, duh.

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He called Mexicans lazy
He also called the British, French, and Germans scoundrels and brutes for their mistreatment of Chinese and Indian populations. Was Marx racist towards himself?

Sorry; the only racist here is Ron Paul.

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You made the claim I wanted slavery
You do; wage slavery.

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that I support expliotation.
You do; worker exploitation.

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Its not deplorable when Democrats are using stuff from Marx right? Thats what they are doing. Clinton, Obama and Edwards (though he's a nobody now) have elements of Socialist programs.
Social democracy and social liberalism are separate ideologies which developed from separate branches. Pick up a history book.

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Are you afraid your anti-state ideology is actually the mainstream and makes it seem a little bit more unattractive to a student?Can't rebel against a system which has your own ideologies now can you?
Hilariously you think the bourgeoisie would want to weaken state power.

No, the ideology of the working class, of humanity, is not expressed in the current government.

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Unfortantley, I do know Marx. As I told you before, I was raised by Irish Socialist and their never ending speeches.. but they come running to me (their capitalist son) for money so they can enjoy the spoils of life.
Irrelevant. My good-for-nothing father champions capitalism to Von Mises' mansion and beyond, but he is constantly looking for ways to sink a penny out of the government and immediate family members. You don't see me using that petty excuse against capitalist apologists.

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As MLK called for equality, something I believe in
No you don't. King was disgusted with capitalism.

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USSR fell.. and its all capitalist. Damn that must suck.
Right. You have nothing worthwhile to contribute. May I retort: where's Ron Paul in the polls? Oh yeah. It's also interesting to note thousands, possibly millions, died when the Soviet Union fell. Prison conditions in the 1990s were worse than they were in the gulags. Life expectancies plummeted. Almost 500 people were killed by private contractors in Moscow from 1992-1999. Go kapitalism!

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Btw, how is the movement going?
Great, actually. Cyprus just elected the communists through a popular vote. The communists in Nepal have destroyed a monarchy and replaced it with popular, multi-party democracy. Raul Castro, the original communist in the family, is making drastic reforms. Labor organizations have seen the first increase in 30+ years.

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Of course, but cooperative democracy is a pipe dream as 100% of the masses never agrees. Unless you do fraud. *
Cooperative democracy can work wonderfully with a small population. The wonderful thing about anarchism is that it lacks your capitalist exploitation. People can form relationships voluntarily. If someone wants to become the worker of another human, they can - but there's really no point, since workers' councils would be bountiful and communist technates would slowly destroy the price system.

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You want to crush Capitalism. That is not equality.
Gandhi and Martin Luther King would disagree. Who's this racist Ron Paul fellow again?

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Facism (which is the 3rd way to your utopia)
Fascism is a form of capitalism. It is fueled on by a strong Leftist movement; the petty class give up their concessions and allow the state and bourgeoisie to merge.

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That is your thought. But we also know that Socialism and Communism can only exsist because of the State as well. So it might be a good idea to rethink your ideology.
Nope. Without the State, socialism and communism are the natural associations. You can consult with anarchist Spain, Iran, and Argentina to see this is true.

Whereas capitalism results in such odd behavior as found in Somalia and Iraq.

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Yep. And Marx also penned a few things that Nazi Germany used to make a case to kill the weak and jews. Should we be talking about that? But I personally tie the word of Capitalism to Adam Smith and his* The Wealth of Nations. Which he wrote about
Adam Smith also attacked the contemporary corporations of his day, which you seem to pass up under the guise of it being perfectly acceptable "labor." In actuality Locke and Smith were very centralist, and in some ways leaned to the left (Locke called for a distribution of wealth towards the poor).

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And that 1% provides 40% of the jobs.
Wow; you mean to tell me a system which seats the capitalists on the top has the capitalists providing jobs? Amazing. Next you'll tell me kings and queens protected more land, thus they deserved more peasants under their grip.



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Thanks, Ronald Reagan was a smart guy. He was an idiot when it came to supporting the Contras.
Ronald Reagan was a murderous scumbag, like Bush Sr., Clinton, and Bush Jr.



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Last edited by GeneCosta : 05-12-2008 at 04:58 PM.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 05:45 PM
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He was the first tyrant in US History.
Yeah, ending slavery--really tyrannical.
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Old 05-12-2008, 05:54 PM
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Yeah, ending slavery--really tyrannical.
Burning crops of civilians and killing their livestock equates to tyranny.

That is why we eat black eyed peas on new years. It was the only think the yankees left.
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Old 05-12-2008, 05:57 PM
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Burning crops of civilians and killing their livestock equates to tyranny.

That is why we eat black eyed peas on new years. It was the only think the yankees left.
Really? I feel like it was worth it. Why don't you ask a black person what they think?
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"Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states...Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds."



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Old 05-12-2008, 06:02 PM
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Really? I feel like it was worth it. Why don't you ask a black person what they think?
That doesn't justify the actions. One can't stoop to an equal level of low and then claim that they are morally better. If you do atrosities in the name of good, you are little different from those that do them in the name of evil.
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