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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2008, 03:32 PM
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The existence of all your FEMAs and other government agencies prove that the USA is a neo-USSR.

The question is - what Americans are going to do about it?
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2008, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Governor Of Alaska View Post
The existence of all your FEMAs and other government agencies prove that the USA is a neo-USSR.

The question is - what Americans are going to do about it?
Not really, governmental organizations that tried to help the people have been around long before the USSR and so any use of them now does not tie to the USSR in any way.

Oh wait, did you mean a governmental organization that says it's whole jobs it to help to people when they are in need but instead do nothing but take their money in the form of taxes to line the pockets of politicans and their companies? In that case, it is just like the a neo-USSR. I see your point now.
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Old 05-10-2008, 11:14 PM
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Why can't the people and the government work together to try to solve problems? Why is it that the government is always demonized?

I agree that there are problems, but shouldn't the goal be to fix the problems rather than gutting the government?
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Old 05-10-2008, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Finny View Post
On a side note for you, Lumara..

I know the guys who run DownsizeDC.org. Jim Babka is a friend.
Then you must hang with a very good crowd. I really admire all the work he does to get the message out about different ways we can downsize the government and make our elected representatives accountable. I have a lot of respect for him because he doesn't endorse any political party or sway with the political winds. Like Ron Paul, he stays true to his beliefs.
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Old 05-11-2008, 03:32 AM
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It is funny how some people want to label me as liberal when I believe in small government, disciplined spending and protecting the constitution. Those are benchmarks for traditional conservatism.

People want to go back to Reagan, but the guy that really deserves recognition for this type of traditional conservatism is Eisenhower. He was also the first to warn us about the military industrial complex. And no one in the white house has understood war better than Eisenhower.
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Old 05-11-2008, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Finny View Post
Why would we ditch Republicanism? As this nation is a Constitutional Republic. Shall we let the rule of the majority make the minority suffer? Is that what you want?

I bet you wouldn't be saying this if you worried about the Conservative base running your lives..

I keep on asking you.. why don't you move to Cuba, if you have such an issue with how things are ran here?
Your last statement is pathetic. If everyone who perceived problems with the American system left, we would still be stuck with chattel slavery, workers scraping up pennies for their existence, and women being told to do all the chores and shut up about politics. It's an interesting remark, though, considering you have a problem with how things are run. Why don't you pack up and move to Somalia? Small government is aplenty there (hey, you said nothing about democracy or efficiency).

I'm not packing for Cuba because I'm an American; my cause is here. Cuban comrades have their own problems to deal with (although I can tell you Cuba isn't half-bad when comparing it to most countries in Latin America).

You somehow perceive constitutionalism to be the polar opposite of real democracy, when really it's complimentary. The only thing that justifies supremacy of law is popular recognition of it.

Most Americans actually lean to the "left" (well, in the liberal/conservative sense - this country is wholeheartedly rightist); I have nothing to fear from them. Now, uncompromising bigots like Ron Paul who believe the top 1% owning 50% of the country's wealth is a.okay may have a problem with allowing the people to decide for themselves.

Hilariously pseudo-libertarians call for "small government" but they still think the people are dumb as rocks and can't rule for themselves. Who's the statist again?
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Last edited by GeneCosta : 05-11-2008 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 05-11-2008, 02:15 PM
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I keep on asking you.. why don't you move to Cuba, if you have such an issue with how things are ran here?
Why don't you move to Iraq? They don't even have a government, so that should be plenty of fun for you.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2008, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumara View Post
Then you must hang with a very good crowd. I really admire all the work he does to get the message out about different ways we can downsize the government and make our elected representatives accountable. I have a lot of respect for him because he doesn't endorse any political party or sway with the political winds. Like Ron Paul, he stays true to his beliefs.
Yep. He's an interesting guy. He's actually very religious but never pushes it on you. He's one of those rare folks who actually understands the US Constitution.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2008, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
Your last statement is pathetic. If everyone who perceived problems with the American system left, we would still be stuck with chattel slavery, workers scraping up pennies for their existence, and women being told to do all the chores and shut up about politics. It's an interesting remark, though, considering you have a problem with how things are run. Why don't you pack up and move to Somalia? Small government is aplenty there (hey, you said nothing about democracy or efficiency).
And you obviously don't understand American Politics or who voted for what. It was a Republican President by the name of Lincoln who pushed for no slavery. It was Republicans who pushed for the 30 years of reforms in the South after The Civil War. Presidents like Ulysses S. Grant. Then came Teddy Roosevelt who was a Republican. Then came Dwight D. Eisenhower who sent the 101st Airborne into Arkansas to allow African-Americans go to school. He took the first step to ending Segration in the South. (Where was your precious FDR, hmm?) Then you had the 1964 Civil Rights act that Lyndon B. Johnson needed the Republicans to pass it because the Dixiecrats (Southern Democrats) didn't want it.

The truth of the 1964 Civil Rights Act..


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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
I'm not packing for Cuba because I'm an American; my cause is here. Cuban comrades have their own problems to deal with (although I can tell you Cuba isn't half-bad when comparing it to most countries in Latin America).

Your cause isn't American. It's "International" as Joe and Bosco put it. But point of saying that is, if you find how the current system in American is that bad why do you stay? Obviously would you like to be part of a Govermnent that has your views.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
You somehow perceive constitutionalism to be the polar opposite of real democracy, when really it's complimentary. The only thing that justifies supremacy of law is popular recognition of it.
Constitutionalism is the opposite of Real Democracy as Real Democracy is based on the rule of the Mob. 51% of the Nation can cause the other 49% to suffer. While in an Ideal Constitutional Republic (which hasn't happened in America in 150 years).. All peoples rights are protected no matter what.

Thats something I strongly believe in. I believe all people are equal. Be it a Socialist, a Capitalist, an African-American or European-American. While you on the other hand want to crush Capitalism. So how is that fair?


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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
Most Americans actually lean to the "left" (well, in the liberal/conservative sense - this country is wholeheartedly rightist); I have nothing to fear from them. Now, uncompromising bigots like Ron Paul who believe the top 1% owning 50% of the country's wealth is a.okay may have a problem with allowing the people to decide for themselves.
Huh? Has Ron Paul said he wants 1% of the current owning 50% of the wealth? No. He wants every American to have a chance, to look at them not as poor and a Government project (thats what it is) but as human beingings who given the chance to compete will flourish.

You are actually holding people down. Not I, nor is Ron Paul. We want people to succeed. It's natural for a person to want more. If we tell a poor person that they are entitled to a certain amount of money and they have to be poor to get it.. what's the incentive to improve yourself?


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Originally Posted by GeneCosta View Post
Hilariously pseudo-libertarians call for "small government" but they still think the people are dumb as rocks and can't rule for themselves. Who's the statist again?
We do call for small Government. You still don't get what Libertarianism calls for. Don't judge something you don't understand. We believe the Federal Government's role should be limited to 1 article, Section 8 in the Constitution.

That everything should be left up to the States and Local Governments. The closer the Government to you, the stronger it is. I.E. Your local Government (City and so on).. has more power then the State and the State has more power then the Federal Government.

It's actually anti-Statist. As the lesser power in the State and the Federal Goverment proves that.

While you on the other hand can't live without the Federal Government programs and it's central power. So who's the Statist?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2008, 10:02 PM
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And you obviously don't understand American Politics or who voted for what. It was a Republican President by the name of Lincoln who pushed for no slavery. It was Republicans who pushed for the 30 years of reforms in the South after The Civil War. Presidents like Ulysses S. Grant. Then came Teddy Roosevelt who was a Republican. Then came Dwight D. Eisenhower who sent the 101st Airborne into Arkansas to allow African-Americans go to school. He took the first step to ending Segration in the South. (Where was your precious FDR, hmm?) Then you had the 1964 Civil Rights act that Lyndon B. Johnson needed the Republicans to pass it because the Dixiecrats (Southern Democrats) didn't want it.
Well, considering he didn't mention Republicans, Democrats, or even conservatives or liberals, I don't see why you are saying any of this.

And your article about "truth" is mainly a lie; the liberal wing of the democratic party was mainly responsible for ending slavery. That's why the South started voting in Republicans, who really were more aligned with them.

Quote:
Your cause isn't American. It's "International" as Joe and Bosco put it. But point of saying that is, if you find how the current system in American is that bad why do you stay? Obviously would you like to be part of a Govermnent that has your views.
Really? Last I checked he isn't either of them.

Quote:
Constitutionalism is the opposite of Real Democracy as Real Democracy is based on the rule of the Mob. 51% of the Nation can cause the other 49% to suffer. While in an Ideal Constitutional Republic (which hasn't happened in America in 150 years).. All peoples rights are protected no matter what.

Thats something I strongly believe in. I believe all people are equal. Be it a Socialist, a Capitalist, an African-American or European-American. While you on the other hand want to crush Capitalism. So how is that fair?
Well, considering that 51% is more than 49%, seems like what they say should go.

In your idea of an Ideal Constitutional Republic, the vast majority of people will have no economic power, and thus no political power. It is freedom only in name, the vast majority of people are basically slaves.

Quote:
Huh? Has Ron Paul said he wants 1% of the current owning 50% of the wealth? No. He wants every American to have a chance, to look at them not as poor and a Government project (thats what it is) but as human beingings who given the chance to compete will flourish.
Yeah, and then you wake up. Ron Paul doesn't want the government to interfere with the rich people at all, and that's what ends up happening without that interference.

Quote:
You are actually holding people down. Not I, nor is Ron Paul. We want people to succeed. It's natural for a person to want more. If we tell a poor person that they are entitled to a certain amount of money and they have to be poor to get it.. what's the incentive to improve yourself?
Yes, you want some people to succeed--at the cost of everyone else.

Quote:
We do call for small Government. You still don't get what Libertarianism calls for. Don't judge something you don't understand. We believe the Federal Government's role should be limited to 1 article, Section 8 in the Constitution.

That everything should be left up to the States and Local Governments. The closer the Government to you, the stronger it is. I.E. Your local Government (City and so on).. has more power then the State and the State has more power then the Federal Government.

It's actually anti-Statist. As the lesser power in the State and the Federal Goverment proves that.

While you on the other hand can't live without the Federal Government programs and it's central power. So who's the Statist?
That's just stupid. Centralized power is the only efficient way of doing things...
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