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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 02:48 PM
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Zephyr- Americans have taken your constitution and interpreted it in ways which only hamper your country. Generally speaking, there is a great deal of emphasis on liberty at the expense of equality and fraternity. This is why I keep recommending Will Hutton's book which would give you an understanding of why the American way is wrong. It would be a great read for you at this point in your life because you would gain a better understanding of how other countries work as opposed to how America works. I feel that you would be able to understand it because you appear to be one of the beginning of a new breed of Americans. Just the fact that you can stay here and go head to head with these people at 16 years of age demonstrates a lot of ability and a lot of caring.

And why not mention the 2nd. amendment. It's just as wrong in it's antiquated American attitude as anything else which is wrong with your country.

Invariable, and over and over again, when one criticizes the US from without there is many times a reference made to the constitution. 'No, we can't do that because our constitution won't allow it', we hear. This should tell you something immediately in that you need to change but your constitution prevents you from changing. Or at least it's used as a defence of the status quo by mostly the hardline conservatives. Is there any logic in that? If your constitution prevents your country from being an equal and respectable global citizen then does that not tell you that you have it all wrong? Does it not tell you that there is something very, very wrong withe the Americans way and what that is perceived to be by the people?

You will understand much better after you read Hutton's book just what Interdependence means.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicod3mus View Post
Thats a great point...while so much of what he says is great he will never get anything done because he is so radical and outrageous that he scares the crap out of everyone. A guy I work with is a huge Ron Paul fan and we talk about it all the time and I usually agree with him throughout the entire conversation and then it ends like this, "yeah but he won't ever get any of that done so it doesn't really matter what good ideas he has...."

You can't walk up to a podium and say everything sucks we have to eliminate every single government bureaucracy etc. etc.....if you want to change things you have to pick an issue and approach it from a reasonable expectation. Change takes time and moderation.
You cant get things done without a large group of people agreeing with you. He tries. It is understandable why people in power to not agree with such policies. It would be giving up there power.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
Well, you have to explain not just your desire to change but how precisely you're going to effectively implement that change. Paul never really did that. That factor coupled with some of the unusual changes which Paul proposed, again without sufficient explanation, likely cost him widespread serious consideration.

I'll grant you that Paul has polished a chair in Congress for 20+ years but he's done virtually nothing during his tenure. I don't assign credibility and experience to someone who has done little more than occupy a chair and take home a six figure salary while spouting flowery, pie in the sky, unsubstantiated rhetoric.
He has been an excellent congressman. He has done his job very well. His job is to vote and discuss. His votes have been consistent. His discussion has been excellent.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by UShaditComing View Post
Bourne gets it right for a change. For the wrong reasons perhaps but nevertheless.

Libertarians always come up short when you hold their feet to the fire and that's evident by looking at how they have failed miserable on my libertarian thread. Any close analysis of their harping on about taxes very quickly reveals that they have found a line of crap which works with people who hate to pay taxes. Most people do hate to pay taxes and so they will jump into the fold with Paul and company without even bothering to question it logically. It just feels goof for them and so they do it.

I believe it's the duty of everyone of different political persuasion, be it left or right, to inform them of their foolishness and break their bubble. That way they will come back to earth and start dealing with reality as the rest of us must do.
"failed miserably". Sure. I barely pay taxes. You make so many assumptions is is laughable.
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Old 05-01-2008, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UShaditComing View Post
Bourne gets it right for a change. For the wrong reasons perhaps but nevertheless.

Libertarians always come up short when you hold their feet to the fire and that's evident by looking at how they have failed miserable on my libertarian thread. Any close analysis of their harping on about taxes very quickly reveals that they have found a line of crap which works with people who hate to pay taxes. Most people do hate to pay taxes and so they will jump into the fold with Paul and company without even bothering to question it logically. It just feels goof for them and so they do it.

I believe it's the duty of everyone of different political persuasion, be it left or right, to inform them of their foolishness and break their bubble. That way they will come back to earth and start dealing with reality as the rest of us must do.
Can you post a link to your libertarian thread, UShaditComing?
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2008, 11:38 AM
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People criticize Paul as a kook but forget that his voting record has consistently been in the 92 to 96 percent range of 10 terms in the House of Representatives. There is a conservative organization that ranks voting by conservative standards, and Paul has always been among the strongest conservative voters in Congress. And that means traditional conservatism based on small government, disciplined spending and protecting the constitution.

He was one of the very few people in congress that actually voted against war powers for Bush - and that was the vote that launched the Iraq Invasion.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2008, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UShaditComing View Post
Invariable, and over and over again, when one criticizes the US from without there is many times a reference made to the constitution. 'No, we can't do that because our constitution won't allow it', we hear. This should tell you something immediately in that you need to change but your constitution prevents you from changing. Or at least it's used as a defence of the status quo by mostly the hardline conservatives. Is there any logic in that? If your constitution prevents your country from being an equal and respectable global citizen then does that not tell you that you have it all wrong?

Great points. Unfortunately what many Americans assume is that the constitution cannot be wrong, these people cling onto it like a religous fundamentalist to their holy texts. They will tell you that it is the rest of the world who is wrong, they can't even contemplate that the problem may lie within.
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If there ever was in the history of humanity an enemy who was truly universal, an enemy whose acts and moves trouble the entire world, threaten the entire world, attack the entire world in any way or another, that real and really universal enemy is precisely Yankee imperialism

They talk about the failure of socialism but where is the success of capitalism in Africa, Asia and Latin America?
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2008, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UShaditComing View Post
Zephyr- Americans have taken your constitution and interpreted it in ways which only hamper your country. Generally speaking, there is a great deal of emphasis on liberty at the expense of equality and fraternity. This is why I keep recommending Will Hutton's book which would give you an understanding of why the American way is wrong. It would be a great read for you at this point in your life because you would gain a better understanding of how other countries work as opposed to how America works. I feel that you would be able to understand it because you appear to be one of the beginning of a new breed of Americans. Just the fact that you can stay here and go head to head with these people at 16 years of age demonstrates a lot of ability and a lot of caring.

And why not mention the 2nd. amendment. It's just as wrong in it's antiquated American attitude as anything else which is wrong with your country.

Invariable, and over and over again, when one criticizes the US from without there is many times a reference made to the constitution. 'No, we can't do that because our constitution won't allow it', we hear. This should tell you something immediately in that you need to change but your constitution prevents you from changing. Or at least it's used as a defence of the status quo by mostly the hardline conservatives. Is there any logic in that? If your constitution prevents your country from being an equal and respectable global citizen then does that not tell you that you have it all wrong? Does it not tell you that there is something very, very wrong withe the Americans way and what that is perceived to be by the people?

You will understand much better after you read Hutton's book just what Interdependence means.
Yes, individualism over collectivism(or what you would call equality and fraternity. You make too many assumptions about how the general American is.

The second amendment is right. It is right on much more than the basis than it is included in the constitution.

The beautiful thing about the constitution is that it can be changed. This also means it should never be broken. Maybe logic prevents us from doing some things. Again nothing wrong with the American way. You still seem to know very very little about Americans.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2008, 08:14 PM
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Here's an interesting article:

The Decline Of The American Empire

By Gabriel Kolko

The dilemma the US has had for a half-century is that the priorities it must impose on its budget and its imperial plans have never guided its actual behavior and action. It has always believed, as well it should, that Europe and its control would determine the future of world power. But it has fought in Korea, Vietnam, and now Iraq--the so-called "Third World" in general--where the stakes of power were much smaller.

The American priorities were specific, focused on individual nations, but they also set the United States the task of guiding or controlling the entire world--which is a very big place and has proven time and again to be far beyond American resources and imperial power. In most of those places in the Third World where the US massively employed its power directly it has lost, and its military might has been ineffective. The US's local proxies have been corrupt and venal in most nations where it has relied upon them. The cost, both in financial terms and in the eventual alienation of the American public, has been monumental.

The Pentagon developed strategic airpower and nuclear weapons with the USSR as its primary target, and equipped itself to fight a massive land war in Eastern Europe. Arms makers much preferred this expensive approach, and they remain very powerful voices in shaping US foreign and budgetary policy.

READ MORE - The Decline Of The American Empire By Gabriel Kolko
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2008, 08:49 PM
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I assume Obama offers to change the Empire notion, and will rein in the military once more, except severely, so we can spend the money to rebuild the machinery & stock it.

Paul would make a good Greenspan, in fact, a better than Greenspan, because I think Paul has integrity and conviction.

Yes folks, it is coming down and noone seems to care. The EURO is now worth 50% more than the USD as world trade shifts to European monetary systems and tells the USA to kiss off their arrogant arse. Thank you Bush. Even Iraq is to be run on the EURO, not the grateful hearted USA sucking eggs in the ME. The EURO has risen to it's high trading status since Bush took office, and destroyed the USD that has been here two hundred years. People, that should tell you something. You should have seen the yellow mustard seed in Bush's 1999 political plank to bring the Chinese communists in the WTO. That should have been a sign to you. Now you slave to send the Chinese interest payments for Bush's war. How grateful of you to build Chinas military machine.

You best vote like your life depends on it, because it does.........


=============Add on=========
In 2003 $318 billion was spent on interest payments servicing the debt, out of a total tax revenue of $1.95 trillion.

In recent years, the debt has soared and inflation has stayed relatively low in part because China has been willing to accumulate reserves denominated in U.S. Dollars. Currently, China holds over $1 trillion in dollar denominated assets (of which $330 billion are U.S. Treasury notes). In comparison, $1.4 trillion represents M1 or the "tight money supply" of U.S. Dollars which suggests that the value of the U.S. Dollar could change dramatically should China ever choose to divest itself of a large portion of those reserves.
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Vote like your life and your families life depends on it - because it does.

Vote like you want peace & prosparity for America - because the right wants more wars, more casualities, more VA hospitals.

Vote like you want a secured border from terrorists, illegal aliens, drugs, and gun runners - because the right offerred you a few miles of wire fence.

Last edited by shintao : 06-03-2008 at 09:03 PM.
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