Originally Posted by Skerlnik

That's the biggest philisophical difference, I have noticed on this and other political forums/discussions, I've encountered.

Where some see things with a liberty/freedom/rights viewpoint, I tend to see things from a responsibility/accountability one. In my experience, the ones who are the most vocal about the loss of rights or restrictions on freedoms tend to be the ones who feel the least connection to society, desiring to operate solely on their own.

I admire the independent spirit, yet I start to worry that we've become less a society than a motley collection of 350 million self-centered individuals with no responsibiities for the collective nation as a whole. It frightens me a little that so many dislike the poor and disadavantaged so much as to feel anger towards even the most basic and inadequate social programs, because it means they have to share, give back to the country.

"Me-me-me, mine-mine-mine" appears to be the heart of that philosophy, and I think that's a poor national motto. That seems to be the core argument for abandoning to public school system to rot, for resistance to a health care system, for railing against a taxation system, and a government that ultimately provides far more benefit than what we pay into it (just not directly).

I think people of a "libertarian" opinion need to remember what the whole point to society is, why people began banding together into villages in the first place. It's more efficient and powerful to do somethings collectively than individually. You are beholden to insure the well-being of others. When people slip through the cracks, fail to financially function well in society, or drop out of education, everybody loses.

With rights come responsibilities, and you can't claim one without acknowledging that. You've got to earn those rights, nothing's free. We cannot continue to enjoy the high acheivements of our society if we figuratively turn tribal.

All that said, I am not some kumbiya socialist, but I do think certain core things need to be handled by government independent of volatile market forces. Education, health care and national defense come to mind. Government should be more of a referee, insuring fair play and competitiveness, protecting and bolstering the weak, for the good of the whole.

Selfishness has never been an American value, and I am ashamed and surprised when I encounter it.