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Finny · #26 (**permalink**) 07-08-2008, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephyr

Again, you don't really seem to understand the distinction.

No, you want to make it mean something else because you would be proven wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephyr

Just an example. The Greeks put up heroic resistance at Marathon, and the Romans put up heroic resistance at Alesia. The Red Army heroically resisted the Wehrmacht at Stalingrad, etc. Churchill heroically resisted German pressure in the black year between France's capitulation and the USSR's entry into the war. The Wehrmacht is just an example of heroism on the part of evil ****s (to a lesser degree, so is the example of the Red Army).

You use the word hero too much. There are no heroes in wars. Just the lucky and unlucky.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephyr

I had thought you might just dismiss it.

Well its based on speculation on the part of the author.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephyr

If 25,000 as opposed to 23,000 matters that much to you, you have no argument from me. I was merely saying that the figures I'd seen indicated 23,000.

No, you said 25k in your op. I corrected you. Don't spin it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephyr

This after you went to great lengths to explain how Gettysburg did not matter. I personally agree with you, in that Chancellorsville was the beginning of the end, but I would compare Chancellorsville to Stalingrad (the beginning of the end of the Wehrmacht) and Gettysburg/Vicksburg to Kursk, which really and truly sealed the Germans' fate.

Gettysburg didn't matter. I am telling you the end started in May 1863 with the loss of Stonewall Jackson. The Army of the Northern Virginia could have won at Gettysburg but they still would have lost the war. The Confederates didn't have the man power and the Union just had to bleed them out like they did during 1864 and 1865 with U.S. Grant running the show.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephyr

I would disagree with you there...the North simply had too much weight compared to the South. Antietam and the Emancipation Proclamation really ended the possibility of European intervention, with which the CSA probably would have won.

I know this isn't addressed to me, but.. its a helluva lot more complicated then what you said. Antietam didn't really help the Union, it was a clusterfvck for them. Lee out commanded McClellan with a force half the size of McClellan's.

European possibility was not going to happen. The failure of many Historians is that to keep UK (England) out of the war it didn't come down to Slavery but many factors. Like the threat of Union support in Ireland. The Union created the Irish Brigade in late 1861 and gave command to (Thomas Francis Meagher) who was one of the masterminds to the 1848 Irish Rebellion.. He recruited only the Irish. Lincoln saw the Irish Brigade as a way to give a warning to UK (England)... the kind of " I am arming the Irish, just remember that".. and it was completely against the gain of the Republican Party at that time.