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Originally Posted by mwillman
I agree that the loop holes for the wealthy needs to be stopped
and that corprations have to many ways to not pay taxes including leaving the country.
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You can't stop the loopholes in a progessive tax system. Progessive taxation by its complex nature BREEDS loopholes and evaporates the middle class, thus creating the same type of rich/poor dichotomy you see in Mexico.
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But you will never get me to buy into your ignore the less fortunate becuase you feel they are a drain on your pocket book ideology.
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I give to several charities year 'round because people need a little help every once in a while. To suggest however that it is a societal RESPONSIBILITY to look after the poor is idiocy, as such a proposition would deny the entire premise of property rights around which all liberty is built. Further, if you give people social welfare benefits for their housing, food, and clothing, educate their children for free, and pay for their health care (yep, the poor already have national health care), why should their incomes not be taxed? It's double-dipping; either they should get social welfare benefits, or a lower rate of taxation, but giving them both is redundant.
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the flat tax puts more burden on the poor and middle class. I dont buy your argument to the contrary.
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You just keep saying, "the flat tax puts more of a burden on the poor and middle class" without providing a sound theoretical or empirical argument to back-up that claim. The average household pays over 20% of their income to the feds each year, but with a 5-15% flat tax and lowered government expenditures, the tax burden for EVERYBODY is demonstrably lower. 15% is less than 20% when last I checked. Provide an arugment other than, "No. No. Kevin Bacon was not in
Footloose. Nope, no he wasn't, uh-uh."
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The rich are not suffering becuase of taxes and neither are you if you are making close to 6 figures and have a family. Unless by suffering you mean you can't have 2 houses and you can only have a 30 foot boat instead of a giant yacht.
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Do you even know what things cost? On my income I BRING HOME (after the feds rape me) about sixty grande cash. I own a home in a state with almost non-existant taxes (Delaware owns), but even then with electricity, insurance, grocery bills, and the like, my wife and I certainly can't afford to live like royalty (we live comfortably but refuse to use debt, like the poor do, to feel richer than we are). You are NOT in a position to tell myself or anybody else what they "need", that's MY call sport-o. A yacht? Really? On under $100k a year you think people are buying yachts? What planet are you on?
The difference between you and I is I believe that the poor can achieve something substantive whereas you do not. Hard work and determination coupled with ambition are a proven formula for success. If we shrink the size of government we shrink the tax burden for EVERYBODY (except those currently NOT paying taxes), and if we simplify the tax code, we ensure that the mega rich (those of us making over $50k apparently *rolls eyes*) can't hide their money, the country as a whole will prosper. You look down on the poor as people needing your protection. I look the poor in the eye as if they were any other person in need of a sense of self-esteem. That's the dark secret of fiscal liberalism that nobody talks about
: it's nanny-state thought-process sees people as units of measurement, just like every other dictatorial system in human history.